Best type of lighting in stables

[Percyprod]

I have built a stable block consisting of two stables and a store. I have applied to have mains electricity installed, and as part p won't apply Iwill be wiring them myself. My question is do led strip lights have as much shadow as led floods. I have been using 12 volt floods, which are great but do cast shadows. I was thinking of fitting weather proof led strip lights, hoping they would be similar to the florescent strip lights. Any ideas?

 

[Percyprod]

Sorry, meant building control, but as you know more than them then it doesn't make much difference.

 

[paul291277]

Oh dear, seems like a little bit of knowledge and all that. The stable is in a field. No house on the land. No one lives in the stable, people that is, and it is not regularly occupied. It is therefore not a dwelling. BS7671 applies to dwellings, it says so clearly. If you think I am wrong, I will give you the name and address of my local council building control officer and you can correct him, as he confirmed the fact that BS7671 does not apply, and test and certificate was not required.

I think your local council building control officer is confusing BS7671 with Part P

 

[paul291277]

BS7671 applies to all electrical installations subject to the exceptions given by any78
have a read of section 705. i believe horses come under the general scope of livestock, even if i prefer them in a plate with chips, mushrooms and a touch of garlic.

Apprentice has my BYB, I assume section 705 is locations containing livestock?

 

[Percyprod]

Bloody hell, I only asked what lights were best! Horses aren't livestock, like it or not.

 

[DavidSpark]

How does the saying go again? You can lead a horse to water..

 

[HandySparks]

We're flogging a dead horse here, chaps.

If the OP thinks that horses kept as pets or for riding don't require an electrical installation to BS7671, whereas horses/cows/sheep kept for meat do, that's his risk.

 

[Andy78]

Top use of logic here.

A forum full of currently practising electrical professionals say one thing. Building control officer who has no specialist electrical knowledge says another. Side with the building control officer.

Argue that horses are not livestock and therefore not subject to measures designed to protect livestock. This logic assumes that people who write definitions have informed the laws of physics to alter themselves to suit the definition.

Both of these viewpoints are only taken because it suits the OP better.

Lol, flogging a dead horse is right.

 

[Strima]

Wait until the DNO want certification before making their connection.

BS 7671 "Requirements for Electrical Installations. IET Wiring Regulations", I think the name gives it away somewhat...

And I've just realised the kids have eaten all the popcorn...

 

[westward10]

Priceless.

 

[Percyprod]

Dno have already made connection, just waiting for supplier to fit meter. Look, if stables aren't mentioned as being covered, and horses are defined as not being livestock, the building control say I can wire it without it being covered by part p and the 17th edition, then yes, I will go with it. Why should I pay a lot of money Isn't need to?

 

[Devonchris]

Your not Lord Finchley by any chance?

 

[sparksburnout]

Enjoyed the argument though - always good to have a good debate.

More like mass debate (r).

 

[Strima]

Let us know when the meters been fitted.

 

[Toneyz]

I've read some things on here but this beats the lot. Just wire and test it to BS7671 at least you know it will meet a certain standard. If now what standard are you wiring to ?.

 

[telectrix]

i know how to settle this livestock or not debate... we''ll ask a plumber.

 

[Des 56]

If you are an electrician of 50 years,like quite a few of us on here, your view that testing an installation is not required ( because only nags kip there)
It is not only unique,it is silly

I think your views need to mature in order to match your likely age

 

[Octopus]

We're flogging a dead horse here, chaps..

A dead horse is an expensive horse.

If and I say IF the OP is a spark he would understand the requirements for testing and compliance of any new installation.

Thats my 2 pennth!

 

[Octopus]

Dno have already made connection, just waiting for supplier to fit meter. Look, if stables aren't mentioned as being covered, and horses are defined as not being livestock, the building control say I can wire it without it being covered by part p and the 17th edition, then yes, I will go with it. Why should I pay a lot of money Isn't need to?

Best you get that clarified in writing .......... are you expecting any form of sign off by LABC?

 

[westward10]

What brand of test equipment are you using.

 

[sparksburnout]

Being as this thread is now getting ridiculous I am going to take it off topic by reciting a little incident that happened to me while walking the dog. This very well to-do lady in a big 4 x 4 and tweed jacket stopped and leaned out the window and said, "excuse me, could tell me where osshow is?" "Sorry" says I, where? "osshow" she says, then repeats "y'know, osshow". "I'm sorry luv, I don't think there is anywhere round here called osshow" "No, osshow, she says, osshow!"
"Oh, I replied, you mean the Horse show?"
"Yes, osshow! What did you think I meant??"
Derbyshire folk eh......

 

[Octopus]

What brand of test equipment are you using.

 

[Percyprod]

It will be installed and tested to the latest regs. If you accept thet BS7671 isn't a legal requirement on it's own, but is accepted as the required standard for the building regulations part P, then if the Building Regs don't require it for a particular building then surely BS7671 doesn't apply. If you look at the Building Regs
The Building Regulations 2010

You are here:
· 2010 No. 2214
· SCHEDULE 2
· CLASS 3

Exemptions from building regulations

The building regulations part p states that buildings in Class 2 (Buildings not frequented by people) and Class 3 (Agricultural buildings) are exempt from part p.

Buildings not frequented by people


1. Subject to paragraph 2, a detached building—

(a)into which people do not normally go; or

2. A building used, subject to paragraph 3, for agriculture, or a building principally for the keeping of animals, provided in each case that—

(a)no part of the building is used as a dwelling;

A stable is for the housing of animals, it is not a dwelling.

Also definition of livestock and agriculture

The Agriculture (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1968 (1968 Ch 34)

The definition of livestock given in Section 8(1) of the Act applies to animals being kept for the production of food, wool, skin or fur on agricultural land.

Agricultural land is defined in Section 8(1) as land used for the purpose of an agricultural trade or business

Also if you read the Building Regulations Part P, Section 2, 'Scope' 2.2
says what buildings are exempt.

From IET:
Q3: To what types of electrical work does Part P apply?

• In or attached to a dwelling
• In the common parts of buildings serving one or more dwellings, but excluding power supplies to lifts
• In a building that receives its electricity from a source located within or shared with a dwelling, and
• In a garden or in or on land associate with a building where the electricity supply is from a source located within or shared with a dwelling

The term dwelling includes houses, maisonettes and flats. It also applies to electrical installations in business premises that share an electricity supply with dwellings, such as shops and public houses with a flat above.

The common parts of buildings includes access areas in blocks of flats such as hallways and shared amenities in blocks of flats such as laundries and gymnasiums.

Part P applies to electrical installations located in outbuildings such as detached garages, sheds and greenhouses.

Part P applies to parts of electrical installations located on land around dwellings such as garden lighting.

I rest my case.

 

[Toneyz]

Did you not read what was posted by members ,what about your argument that it did not have to comply with BS7671 ? .

 

[Octopus]

It will be installed and tested to the latest regs. If you accept thet BS7671 isn't a legal requirement on it's own, but is accepted as the required standard for the building regulations part P, then if the Building Regs don't require it for a particular building then surely BS7671 doesn't apply. If you look at the Building Regs
The Building Regulations 2010

You are here:
· 2010 No. 2214
· SCHEDULE 2
· CLASS 3

Exemptions from building regulations

The building regulations part p states that buildings in Class 2 (Buildings not frequented by people) and Class 3 (Agricultural buildings) are exempt from part p.

Buildings not frequented by people


1. Subject to paragraph 2, a detached building—

(a)into which people do not normally go; or

2. A building used, subject to paragraph 3, for agriculture, or a building principally for the keeping of animals, provided in each case that—

(a)no part of the building is used as a dwelling;

A stable is for the housing of animals, it is not a dwelling.

Also definition of livestock and agriculture

The Agriculture (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1968 (1968 Ch 34)

The definition of livestock given in Section 8(1) of the Act applies to animals being kept for the production of food, wool, skin or fur on agricultural land.

Agricultural land is defined in Section 8(1) as land used for the purpose of an agricultural trade or business

Also if you read the Building Regulations Part P, Section 2, 'Scope' 2.2
says what buildings are exempt.

From IET:
Q3: To what types of electrical work does Part P apply?

• In or attached to a dwelling
• In the common parts of buildings serving one or more dwellings, but excluding power supplies to lifts
• In a building that receives its electricity from a source located within or shared with a dwelling, and
• In a garden or in or on land associate with a building where the electricity supply is from a source located within or shared with a dwelling

The term dwelling includes houses, maisonettes and flats. It also applies to electrical installations in business premises that share an electricity supply with dwellings, such as shops and public houses with a flat above.

The common parts of buildings includes access areas in blocks of flats such as hallways and shared amenities in blocks of flats such as laundries and gymnasiums.

Part P applies to electrical installations located in outbuildings such as detached garages, sheds and greenhouses.

Part P applies to parts of electrical installations located on land around dwellings such as garden lighting.

I rest my case.

Best you review your sources ........... as I think you'll conclude that all wiring in the UK except as listed earlier in this thread should be installed to BS 7671

Part P and BS 7671 are 2 completely different things

You're not a spark are you?

 

[Andy78]

Building regulations and BS7671 are quite separate. The requirements for BS7671 do not depend upon the application of building regulations to a situation. How you don't know that after your time in the game I don't know.

 

[DPG]

Again you are confusing part P and the wiring regs. The wiring regs apply to all installs, whether farming, domestic, commercial, etc.

You have already admitted that your initial argument about it only applying to residences was wrong. You are digging yourself deeper the more you rabbit on.

 

[Percyprod]

Exactly. Part p is a legal requirement, bs7671 isn't. Part p doesn't cover the building concerned. End of story. But at the end of the day it is safe, installed and tested by an electrician.

 

[Toneyz]

Bluff

 

[DPG]

Exactly. Part p is a legal requirement, bs7671 isn't. Part p doesn't cover the building concerned. End of story. But at the end of the day it is safe, installed and tested by an electrician.

So your argument now is that it's because BS7671 isn't a legal requirement. You are presumably then saying that it isn't a requirement for domestic installs as well? Either you are just trolling for an argument or you really have misunderstood the system.

Every wiring installation needs testing and certifying, it may or may not however need notifying to building control as part of the building regs.

 

[Octopus]

Exactly. Part p is a legal requirement, bs7671 isn't. Part p doesn't cover the building concerned. End of story. But at the end of the day it is safe, installed and tested by an electrician.

And you claim this is you

ha ha ha