cu change price at the big orange shed

[applemac]

went down the warehouse full of edjits today looking for garden stuff

wondered down the leccy isle to find a big notice consumer unit change by our local blah blah £449.. not inc bonding or any faults...

im charging £350 including new tails not inc bonding...

sorry no pics :]

 

[Spazz]

The big problem like said above is the suppliers are allowed to let job public walk into the shop and buy any item Gas, Electric, what ever!
At the least these CUs, showers, boilers, etc, etc should come with a notice stating that "the installation of this item is notifiable under Part P of the Building Regulations, please either contact your local authority or a qualified electrician before installing this item". They should also have a system like they have with TVs! You cant buy a TV these days without giving your postcode so TV Licencing can check you got a licence - same should be done with these items!

If these items came with a notice (above) it would reduce the number that are installed in a dangerous way. They have 2 options at the end of the day:

1. pay £120 ish to the LABC and do it themselves and the labc will come out and test
2. pay £300+ to an electrician who will install, test and notify it for you

 

[Spazz]

Just a thought - if someone buys a CU and installs it but kills themselves whilst installing said unit, who is responsible?
The Manufacturer for not putting a notice in the box saying installing this item is dangerous, if your not confident get a qualified electrician in?, or B&Q for selling it? for Joe Blogs who didn't know better but wanted to do good by his family?

There is a bit of food for thought in this blame blame world today

 

[Engineer54]

Just a thought - if someone buys a CU and installs it but kills themselves whilst installing said unit, who is responsible?
The Manufacturer for not putting a notice in the box saying installing this item is dangerous, if your not confident get a qualified electrician in?, or B&Q for selling it? for Joe Blogs who didn't know better but wanted to do good by his family?

There is a bit of food for thought in this blame blame world today

The only fool responsible is the clown that tried installing it without the necessary knowledge. But what's that got to do with banning the sale to Joe Public?? Are we going to become the nanny state that rules every section of your life??

There are as many fast track so-called electricians out there that are just as incapable as some members of the public, ...in fact some of the better DIY'ers will probably do a better job than a good many of these so-called competent persons.... Thank god for the DIY'er, they are after all said and done, are a constant supply of work for all you local electricians!!

The fact is we are not the electrical police and nor should we be.

 

[whitestu]

There are as many fast track so-called electricians out there that are just as incapable as some members of the public

Based on the guys who did the wiring in my old house a few years ago I can definitely agree with that!

 

[trev]

If you buy just about any accessory from a shed or anywhere else for that matter there will be a leaflet in it which somewhere in the contents will contain the phrase "If in doubt consult a suitably qualified electrician" or words to that effect. Even stuff I've bought from the wholesalers has had it in there. If Joe Soap goes out, buys a CU, reads that and thinks "anyone can do it" then kills himnself in the process well more fool him, perhaps his family will educate their equally moronic mates about the dangers and the horrible painful fiery death which awaits the hard of understanding.
All this nonsense about restricting sale of electrical items only to card carrying sparks is beginning to grate on me because it seems to happen on a weekly basis. I can go into Plumb Center tomorrow if I so wished and as long as I can pay the nice man behind the desk I can walk out with everything I need to install a heating system in my or your home with no questions asked. Halfords will happily sell me parts for your car which I can come and fit without fear of anyone asking me if I know what I'm doing. A garden centre will be very pleased to let me walk out of there with enough toxins under my arm to kill a small village as long as I can pay them.
If the government were to protect our trade every other trade will demand parity, you will then not even be able to buy a tin of paint or a replacement gate for your garden and that will be the death of the entire DIY industry and the sheds but that will never ever happen. You know why? Because the sheds are all owned by big businesses that the government are scared of.

 

[PGTips]

Amazing, another electrician that thinks the general public owes him a living!!!

He still hasn't grasped the fact if you start restricting the sale of electrical products, they WILL increase in price exponentially, and make his life of finding new work, all the harder!!

Your talking as if this is something new, ...it isn't it's been going on even before i came into the industry. It wasn't a problem then and it's still not a problem now. Perhaps you should remember your cries of woe, the next time you change a set of brake pads on your car or van for instance. Perhaps the sale of brake pads and other safety related items should also be subject to restricted sale too, in your world??

Firstly I don't think that the general public owes me aliving at all because I don't do installations for the "generalpublic" they don't pay well enough.
Restricting/ceasing the sale of products to people who arenot qualified to use them, Yeh guilty of that for sure. By doing this itincreases the price of materials? Lost me there superstar. How does this workthen?
I agree with you that this has been going on for a number ofyears, but what I’m saying is with all the red tape and jumping through hoopsthat goes on in the industry these days it should policed a lot better. Theonly way this can be done effectively is to make it harder for the electricallychallenged to get hold of equipment that could potentially kill someone.
I wouldn't know about brake pads/brake fluid etc. I'm anElectrical Technician not a mechanic, so I always take the porsche to thegarage.

 

[trev]

Restricting/ceasing the sale of products to people who arenot qualified to use them, Yeh guilty of that for sure. By doing this itincreases the price of materials? Lost me there superstar. How does this workthen?

Basic economics, the reason the shed can sell a CU for £50 is that they sell boatloads of them. Take Joe Soap out of the equation and they're not selling so many, if they're not selling so many they'll stop buying so many and the manufacturers will not make so many. Thus losing out on the economies of scale they get from their raw material suppliers.

 

[PGTips]

Basic economics, the reason the shed can sell a CU for £50 is that they sell boatloads of them. Take Joe Soap out of the equation and they're not selling so many, if they're not selling so many they'll stop buying so many and the manufacturers will not make so many. Thus losing out on the economies of scale they get from their raw material suppliers.

Fair point didn't really think of it like that.

 

[Engineer54]

Firstly I don't think that the general public owes me aliving at all because I don't do installations for the "generalpublic" they don't pay well enough.
Restricting/ceasing the sale of products to people who arenot qualified to use them, Yeh guilty of that for sure. By doing this itincreases the price of materials? Lost me there superstar. How does this workthen?
I agree with you that this has been going on for a number ofyears, but what I’m saying is with all the red tape and jumping through hoopsthat goes on in the industry these days it should policed a lot better. Theonly way this can be done effectively is to make it harder for the electricallychallenged to get hold of equipment that could potentially kill someone.
I wouldn't know about brake pads/brake fluid etc. I'm anElectrical Technician not a mechanic, so I always take the porsche to thegarage.

So you can't see how, by restricting sales of a product won't increase it's price?? Supply and demand should be ringing loud bells for you on that one!!! So just because you take your Roll's-can-hardly to a garage, no-one is allowed to undertake work their own vehicle's, is that what your saying?? lol!!!

And who are the electrically challenged then?? Who are you going to allow to purchase electrical accessories/goods etc?? Your looking through tunnel vision glasses and can't see the far bigger picture, of the consequences being another complete disaster all round, not least for the jobbing electrician. Apart from anything else, thankfully you, and other like minded electricians are peeing in the wind, as you'll never get past the big sheds clout in the market place and the UK economy, so it's never going to happen....

If you want electricians to be proactive, start by sorting out and cleaning up your own industry, ...Now that really does need some serious work doing on.

 

[Engineer54]

Basic economics, the reason the shed can sell a CU for £50 is that they sell boatloads of them. Take Joe Soap out of the equation and they're not selling so many, if they're not selling so many they'll stop buying so many and the manufacturers will not make so many. Thus losing out on the economies of scale they get from their raw material suppliers.

As i think i said before, i bet the vast majority of these CU sales are to jobbing electricians trying to cut costs etc. Very few Joe's out there will try to do a CU change off their own back. I can though see them buying materials from the sheds to try and reduce their electrician costs, there-by hiring electricians on a labour only basis, ...which is fair enough if both parties agree to it!!

 

[t-s]

dont quote me on it because im only repeating what someone told me, but apparrently some european countries wont sell electrical good to members of the pulic and whatever their equivelant to bandq is will only sell you say for example a double socket as "double socket + fitting" not a bad system whether its true or not.

 

[trev]

As i think i said before, i bet the vast majority of these CU sales are to jobbing electricians trying to cut costs etc. Very few Joe's out there will try to do a CU change off their own back. I can though see them buying materials from the sheds to try and reduce their electrician costs, there-by hiring electricians on a labour only basis, ...which is fair enough if both parties agree to it!!

I agree but if suddenly the shed cannot sell to Joe are they really going to be bothered with selling them to Eddy the electrician? Any restriction will be bound to come with reams and reams of paperwork, traceability etc so they can prove that on the 35th of Julember those 15 CUs they sold were taken by the aforementioned Eddy. It'll be too costly an excercise for them

 

[Octopus]

Wake up to what??

Their ideas of selling to the "trade" at a higher price than to the sheds.

Trade price is a joke these days.

 

[PGTips]

So you can't see how, by restricting sales of a product won't increase it's price?? Supply and demand should be ringing loud bells for you on that one!!! So just because you take your Roll's-can-hardly to a garage, no-one is allowed to undertake work their own vehicle's, is that what your saying?? lol!!!

And who are the electrically challenged then?? Who are you going to allow to purchase electrical accessories/goods etc?? Your looking through tunnel vision glasses and can't see the far bigger picture, of the consequences being another complete disaster all round, not least for the jobbing electrician. Apart from anything else, thankfully you, and other like minded electricians are peeing in the wind, as you'll never get past the big sheds clout in the market place and the UK economy, so it's never going to happen....

If you want electricians to be proactive, start by sorting out and cleaning up your own industry, ...Now that really does need some serious work doing on.

Rolls-can-hardly???? - What's this??? Oh now I get it.That's soooooooooooo funny LOL!!!
"And who are the electrically challenged then??”- Nonqualified, non competent people and the general public etc etc. Electricity at WorkRegulations stipulates clearly who is and who is not competent to work on electrical systems in th eyes of the law.
"Who are you going to allow to purchase electricalaccessories/goods etc??”- Qualified Electricians, competent persons andElectrical contracting companies. Electricity at Work Regulations 1989 refersto competent person and I don't think they mean Ken Dodd, or maybe they do?
If you want electricians to be proactive, start by sortingout and cleaning up your own industry, ...Now that really does need someserious work doing on. So what industry are you referring to here??? I presumethat you are an Electrical contractor working in the Electrical industry, so Iguess that would be you dipped in the same paint tin as us all. Or do you justwork at the local B&Q giving the how too seminars and selling the DIYidiots the stuff??? LOL!!!!

 

[Des 56]

If you restricted sales at the Diy store to the competent person,the Niceic would soon see the niche market for more numbers

I can well imagine a stall, manned by Tony Cable,it could be set up next to the Dist boards in order to "sign em on" before they spend all their money on that flash swanky tripping fuse thingy

Being electrically challenged would not hold any obstacles to the punters,or at least,thus far, it hasn't impacted on nicy just yet
They could even start a B+Q installer scheme for the electrically challenged, who then are deemed "skilled this thursday"installers/ members

Perhaps these new breed of installers can have 10% off the cost of their next course, the "double socket installers upgrade"
Niceic awarded of course and exclusive to the B+Q skilled this Thursday sector
The opportunities are indeed endless