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Morning All

Please can someone provide me a definitive answer to matters pertaining EICR
As a NICEIC Domestic Installer I hold C&G 2392, 2393, and my 18th Ed.
I’m keen for this thread not to descend into a 5 day pay as you go wonder v 90 years on the tools indented apprentices how very dare you!


Is it legal (specifically) for me to conduct EICR work? Let’s make the assumption that I have the competency and experience to complete this safely, effectively and efficiently.

Thanks
 
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Spoon

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Morning All

Please can someone provide me a definitive answer to matters pertaining EICR
As a NICEIC Domestic Installer I hold C&G 2392, 2393, and my 18th Ed.
I’m keen for this thread not to descend into a 5 day pay as you go wonder v 90 years on the tools indented apprentices how very dare you!


Is it legal (specifically) for me to conduct EICR work? Let’s make the assumption that I have the competency and experience to complete this safely, effectively and efficiently.

Thanks
Welcome to the forum mate.
Appendix 6 of the regs just state the below:
The Electrical Installation Certificate required by Part 6 should be made out and signed or otherwise authenticated by a skilled person or persons in respect of the design, construction, inspection and testing of the work.
I don't think there is any 'legal' requirements.

Skilled person (electrically). Person who possesses, as appropriate to the nature of the electrical work to be undertaken, adequate education, training and practical skills, and who is able to perceive risks and avoid hazards which electricity can create.
NOTE 1: The term "(electrically)" is assumed to be present where the term 'skilled person' is used throughout BS 7671.
NOTE 2: Regulation 16 of the Electricity at Work Regulations 1989 requires persons to be competent to prevent danger and injury. The HSE publication HSR25 provides guidance on this.
 
absolutely any competent person can conduct an EICR

Most people 3 day wonders or 150 year time served who belong to a scam would generally be considered competent

As would any sparks who holds a valid testing and inspection qualification

For example I spent 3 years at college and 6 years of training to become a sparks , so I would deem my self competent (just)
 

Richard Burns

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If you have the competence and experience to correctly and safely complete the inspection and testing of an installation and make a valid and justifiable report on its condition then you are allowed to do this.
The legal requirements would come from the Electricity at work Regulations which require the persons doing the work to be competent at doing the work.

Separate from a legal issue the requirements of the wiring regulations is covered by Spoon above.
The requirements of competence are often preferred to be backed by qualificational support and this would generally mean passing exams on the periodic inspection and testing of existing electrical installations.
The requirements of the person requesting the report may cover appropriate training as evidenced by exams passed and appropriate membership of a supporting body such as a competent person scheme covering EICRs.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
absolutely any competent person can conduct an EICR

Most people 3 day wonders or 150 year time served who belong to a scam would generally be considered competent

As would any sparks who holds a valid testing and inspection qualification

For example I spent 3 years at college and 6 years of training to become a sparks , so I would deem my self competent (just)
Are you of the opinion that NICEIC schemes are ‘scams’ or have I misunderstood?
Btw no offence intended by my sardonic 5DW v 90yr etc!!! Just my daft sense of humour!!! ; )
 
T

The Ghost

Legality in doing EICR may require a couple of other things assuming you are competent etc. Namely indemnity insurance (£250.000) on top of PL insurance. I don't know what scheme you are with but Stroma require the 2391 or nowadays equivalent, to endorse doing EICR, maybe your scheme does. Maybe worth checking on.
 
Are you of the opinion that NICEIC schemes are ‘scams’ or have I misunderstood?
Btw no offence intended by my sardonic 5DW v 90yr etc!!! Just my daft sense of humour!!! ; )
Anyone who takes money off someone for doing something they would otherwise do without having to have Z money extracted from their bank account on a regular basis is a scam imo

I’m setting up the lawn mowing safety competency council soon , I will be charging £650:per year so you can be vetted in the art of mowing in straight lines....
 
The NICEIC do not allow their logo to be used on a domestic installer's EICR, that privileged (?) is reserved for Approved installers
 

plugsandsparks

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What jumped out at me is the word in the title "definitive" and then "legal"

Sadly, in the terms of an electrician, the "facts" could be in dispute in a court room.
i.e. "competent" "skilled"
This leaves the door open to the prosecution to argue a case against you.
Thats the way the law works.
If i had to argue that i was skilled and competent, i would list my electrical qualifications, the number and range of EICR's i had completed, the years of experience designing and installing electrical installations and let the prosecution pick the bones out of it.
So , in summary, there is no definitive answer for you IMHO :)
 

Spoon

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The NICEIC do not allow their logo to be used on a domestic installer's EICR, that privileged (?) is reserved for Approved installers
So what is the difference between a 'domestic installer' and an 'approved installer'?
 

ruston

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An approved installer is approved in all disciplines , not just confined to domestic.
In the old days they were tested on all aspects of electrical work , and were quite strict in their selection.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13
Welcome to the forum mate.
Appendix 6 of the regs just state the below:
The Electrical Installation Certificate required by Part 6 should be made out and signed or otherwise authenticated by a skilled person or persons in respect of the design, construction, inspection and testing of the work.
I don't think there is any 'legal' requirements.

Skilled person (electrically). Person who possesses, as appropriate to the nature of the electrical work to be undertaken, adequate education, training and practical skills, and who is able to perceive risks and avoid hazards which electricity can create.
NOTE 1: The term "(electrically)" is assumed to be present where the term 'skilled person' is used throughout BS 7671.
NOTE 2: Regulation 16 of the Electricity at Work Regulations 1989 requires persons to be competent to prevent danger and injury. The HSE publication HSR25 provides guidance on this.
Thanks Spoon

Very kind welcome and sound advice!
 

telectrix

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it's actually "domestic installer" as recognised in domestic only or "approved contractor" as in fully qualified electrician.( going by niceic definitions) an AC is recognised as competent and qualified to work in all sectors.
 
Niceic domestic installer badge was only invented because of Partpee

Pre part pee you only had niceic approved contractor status

The whole domesticated installer thing is just a method to self notify work without having to apply for building inspection

It was a genius scam to extract money from air con guys , kitchen and bathroom companies and anyone who basically does electrical work within dwellings
 

Andy78

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Competence is relative.
Does being able to join a scheme make you competent ? Maybe, maybe not. Competent in what ? What does your scheme deem you competent to do ?
If your scheme does not deem you competent to perform periodic inspection how do you prove competence ? With specific training and qualification. Do you have any ? This should be coupled with experience in inspection. Do you have any ?
Does your insurance cover you for it ?

In GN3 there is a passage which explains what is expected of a person performing inspections.
 

telectrix

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was originally intended to allow kitchen fitters, plumbers etc. to do electrical work connected with their normal works. once niceic and the likes had seen a cash cow, they decided to create a whole cash herd, giving rise to the other parasites providing Electrical Trainee courses.
 

Ian1981

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Quite a few clients we work for are now insisting on proof of qualifications and in particular the initial verification qualification for installation works that is inspected and tested and an EIC given( the testing must be done by someone with this qualification) and for EICR’s proof of a qualification such as the periodic inspection and testing one.
We did an army barracks last year and there was only myself and one other lad from our company allowed to test and complete the EIC.
Basically it’s becoming no testing qualifications then no work.
 

richy3333

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I thought I read on here that DI’s under the NICEIC scheme aren’t ‘allowed to do EICR’s? We dont have DI’s up here!
 

ruston

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I thought I read on here that DI’s under the NICEIC scheme aren’t ‘allowed to do EICR’s? We dont have DI’s up here!
I think it is they cannot use NECIC forms . I think they can still do EICR's if they are competent to do so.
 

Andy78

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I thought I read on here that DI’s under the NICEIC scheme aren’t ‘allowed to do EICR’s? We dont have DI’s up here!
The domestic installer Scheme will only assess for, and give backing for, domestic installations and their initial verification.
Any scheme that gives backing to the candidate to do inspections will usually require proof of competence through qualification and assessment.

Not that I agree that any scheme assessment is complete proof of competence.
 

Des 56

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Having had some excellent opinions from members MarkySparky 1962
Would you care to elaborate on the reasons you want a definition of the legality?

Flesh on Bones sort of thing :)
 
N

Nigel

EAWR is what will get you in front of a court. This is not stressed enough to the new people coming into the industry. EAWR is law and you will probably be prosecuted under that more than BS 7671. Regulation 16 is the important part.

Defining competence for me is do I have the correct qualifications, tools, equipment, CPD and experience to complete the work involved.

Now in all honesty I have no issue with DI’s when they stick to domestic. It is quite silly to expect someone to attend a four to five year apprenticeship in the complete electrical discipline if all they wish to do is re-wires and new-builds. The problem comes with DI’s flirting with works they are not qualified nor competent to do just because they class themselves as electricians. They are not electricians. They are domestic installers.

So to answer your question I would say you are legal if you have the correct qualifications, tools, equipment and experience to perform the role. Also competence is about knowing when you should say no to something if you feel you are not.
 
D

Deleted member 26818

As Part P relates to construction, being a member of a scheme has no relevance on whether a person can conduct periodic inspections.
I personally sat and passed my 2391 very recently, though I have been inspecting and testing installations from before the 2391 was introduced.

Did I feel competent to conduct testing before the 2391 was introduced?
Yes.
Did I feel any less competent after the 2391 was introduced?
No.
Do I feel more competent now because I have sat and passed the 2391?
No.

The 2391 was introduced on behalf of the NICEIC for their Qualified Supervisors to pass and show their competence.
It was dropped as a requirement by the NICEIC, because so few of their Qualified Supervisors were able to pass the exam.

At the time of it’s introduction, the intention was just for Qualified Supervisors to require the 2391.
The persons conducting the inspections were not required or even expected to hold the 2391.
They just wanted someone who would be able to assess the reports made by others.
 
Quite a few clients we work for are now insisting on proof of qualifications and in particular the initial verification qualification for installation works that is inspected and tested and an EIC given( the testing must be done by someone with this qualification) and for EICR’s proof of a qualification such as the periodic inspection and testing one.
We did an army barracks last year and there was only myself and one other lad from our company allowed to test and complete the EIC.
Basically it’s becoming no testing qualifications then no work.
But could you not navigate around this by use of the "Qualified Supervisor" section.
 
Welcome to the forum mate.
Appendix 6 of the regs just state the below:
The Electrical Installation Certificate required by Part 6 should be made out and signed or otherwise authenticated by a skilled person or persons in respect of the design, construction, inspection and testing of the work.
I don't think there is any 'legal' requirements.

Skilled person (electrically). Person who possesses, as appropriate to the nature of the electrical work to be undertaken, adequate education, training and practical skills, and who is able to perceive risks and avoid hazards which electricity can create.
NOTE 1: The term "(electrically)" is assumed to be present where the term 'skilled person' is used throughout BS 7671.
NOTE 2: Regulation 16 of the Electricity at Work Regulations 1989 requires persons to be competent to prevent danger and injury. The HSE publication HSR25 provides guidance on this.
Good Answer! I am also looking for.Thank You so Much
 
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