Domestic PIR questions

[kevi boy]

Hi guys.. newcomer here, doing domestic periodic inspections lately and have come across bits and pieces (some trivial) but any information would be grateful!!

1/ 3871 Type 1 - 5 amps (usually lighting) trip when tested with Meggar MFT any reason for this? settings to high on meter?

2/ Sockets and switches etc positioned near to sinks how close is too close?

3/ Bonding of the pipes at immersion heater and CH boiler required? Have been noting it down due to the potentials but is it req? If you go down this road then surely it would just get silly again with washing machine pipework teed off kitchen sinks req bonding etc etc.

4/True Ze readings.. In a occupied household is it safe working practice to disconnect the main earth (power off of course!) to attain readings, does this set up potentials from incoming services, have been advised to do it and have been advised not to do it!

5/Water temperature to high in house holds - is there any kind of reg that is usable when immersions not always easy to get to expect reg 132.12.


Thanking you.

 

[electro]

Hi Kevi Boy

1. change the mcb to a 10A or just a R1 and R2 test and add the ze
2. No set figure, you will have use your judgment, R of T 300mm at min from edge of sink.
3. Bonding 16th yes required if eebads, 17th Ados maybe required subject to tests..
4. switch off test the ze from the board via disconnector if not one fitted remove and test.
5. 60c to 70c I would get this doubled checked that's of the top of my head.

Regards

 

[old dog]

hi a loop impedance test delivers a high current for a short time witch will trip sensetive circuit breakers
zs will have to be calculated
can you give more info on the bonding arrangements it sound like an old install kitchen sink
bonding has not been required for years
immersion ( water getting to hot) stat needs changing and is dangerous i would say code 1
and before anyone comes to shoot me down in flames there was a child killed not so long ago
due to faulty stat boiling water backed up to the plastic tank in the loft and burst killing the child

 

[electro]

Hi
Old dog, supplementary bonding still exists even in the 17th edition, forget the kitchen sinks but you still need to bond unless you prove otherwise. Getting access to a stat has nothing to do with with fitting an ImmersionHeater Thermostat with overheat safety cut-out which should be done or recorded on cert. Reg 132.12 it relates to accessibility of the stat.


Regards

 

[old dog]

Hi
Old dog, supplementary bonding still exists even in the 17th edition, forget the kitchen sinks but you still need to bond unless you prove otherwise. Getting access to a stat has nothing to do with with fitting an ImmersionHeater Thermostat with overheat safety cut-out which should be done or recorded on cert. Reg 132.12 it relates to accessibility of the stat.


Regards

yes i know sup bonding still exist the sink is not needed i asked for more info on the bonding to
see if it was adequate as it sound like an old install
and the 5amp breaker is fine its the loop test thats trippng it got this as a 2391 question
the normal pratice is to calculate zs

Hi
Old dog, supplementary bonding still exists even in the 17th edition, forget the kitchen sinks but you still need to bond unless you prove otherwise. Getting access to a stat has nothing to do with with fitting an ImmersionHeater Thermostat with overheat safety cut-out which should be done or recorded on cert. Reg 132.12 it relates to accessibility of the stat.


Regards

hi electro just looked back on op sorry did not read further than water gets to hot
well if the water get to hot the stat is suspect and has been observed by the tester ( kevi boy )
then a fuction test should be carried out bearing in mind the danger is the cicuit safe to carry on inservice

 

[electro]

Hi

The 10amp MCB is a trick of the trade. yes you are right the books will tell you to calculate just incase your circuits not upto a 10amp mcb. I put about the supplementary bonding as so many electricians think its gone a big problem at the moment was brought up at the 17th one year on meeting.

regards

 

[old dog]

yes mate its a trick i have used for years going back to college for the 17th and 2391 after 30 years in the trade
has made me go soft
anyway back to the bonding as you know 17th rcd makes it less likely but this is a pir you dont have to rcd to bring it up to date but you must make sure the bonding is adequate

 

[electro]

Hi

The thing thats getting messy is these half 16th and half 17th installtions. The question is to bond or not to bond that is the question.......................

Thanks Old dog this will give kevi boy something to read when he logs on

 

[old dog]

thats a point kevi boys fired in 5 questions gone down the pub and it will be sorted before he staggers home
thats the way to sort it out nice one

 

[kevi boy]

Cheers for the fast response guys, quite a debate! with the water temperature question I'm going to go with reg 634.2 (with reference to dangerous conditions) as we have to supply a regs number with defects on our PIR, but there is nothing i can find reg wise for temperatures (some are set to 55 degrees but nothing in writing to confirm it) in domestic dwellings to be more specific as some regs can be vague and 634.2 can be used for a lot of situations, but i guess that would be listed within the building regs with something along the lines of distances from kitchen sinks for outlets.

With regards to the bonding the houses that i have been carrying out the PIRs in have been constructed to 16th edition and some with alterations to 17th and the HWC and Gas boiler pipework can be bonded then not bonded the next house so it seems like its a grey matter for many, but I'll stick to noting it down if absent.

And also i do not stagger home from the pub... i get carried!