Electricain. Good Trade? Money? and setting up?

[markj82]

Hi

I am considering a change of carrer and becoming an electricain.

The main question really I suppose is it a good trade to be in and is there money to be made? I though this would be the best place to ask.

I have looked at several companies to supply the qulaifications ranging from £2500 to £5000. I will then be "qualified" to 2382,2392 pat testing 2377-11 & 2377-12. And I will probabbly also do 2391 at a later date, and apply for NICEIC. The intention is to set up by myself for mainly domestic work.

I have a shopping basket in screwfix direct with £2800 of tools waiting for me to buy, Public and proffesional insurance and have put £3000 aside for a vehicle. I am an experinced markerter, I am a Google Ads words and SEO proffesional (getting websites to the top of search results) but it is a very boring job.

I do not have that much electrical experince to be honest, but I have refurbished 3 houses and one of them was a complete rewire of a 4 bed victorian house that I done by myself and then got a safety inspection, which passed. although i appreciate that there is nothing better than experince.

I asked a similar question on a forum 6 months ago about becoming a HIPS inspector, they all put me off, and as HIPS have been cancelled was a wise move.

Any advice will be very much appreciated.

Thanks


Mark

 

[Spa Key]

There's no money in this trade at the minute. There are experiences sparkys on here who can't find any work. For a lot of self-employed people, their phone isn't even ringing.

Remember there are hundreds of people every month doing the same course as you. The 'lack of electricians' is a myth. There's not that much money in it at the best of times, and the earn £50k/year you hear about is carp.

 

[pushrod]

If you do decide to try it i wouldn't go with these expensive courses that promise everything -TBH they might sound good, but the people running them are interested in taking your money, whereas the lecturers at your local college are interested in pass rates. I have just completed my c&g 2330 levels 2 and 3 (two years full time) and my 2382 (Evening classes) at my local college all for less than £900. The extra time it takes at college is a good thing IMO as it enables you to revisit a lot of stuff and learn it well.

Unfortunately the 2330 courses at colleges are just in the process of being replaced.

 

[markj82]

If you do decide to try it i wouldn't go with these expensive courses that promise everything -TBH they might sound good, but the people running them are interested in taking your money, whereas the lecturers at your local college are interested in pass rates. I have just completed my c&g 2330 levels 2 and 3 (two years full time) and my 2382 (Evening classes) at my local college all for less than £900. The extra time it takes at college is a good thing IMO as it enables you to revisit a lot of stuff and learn it well.

Unfortunately the 2330 courses at colleges are just in the process of being replaced.

Thanks, I am not that concerened about the cost, I cant wait years to get quailified although I am sure you leave with a better understanding that just doing a 4 week course.

Have you any idea what the market is like out there at the moment?

mark

 

[pushrod]

unfortunately i am the wrong person to be asking about that one, but i suspect a lot of it is to do with reputation and word of mouth for repeat business. There was however a bloke on the course who was actually working while doing the course who seemed always to have plenty of work, so much so that he was always having to miss days. BTW full tiime only meant 3 days/week in the first year and 2 days per week in the second year so it was quite easy to carry on with part - time work if you wanted to.

 

[confused-fuse]

the trade is dead same as electronic repairs,computer repairs,electrical repairs, the only thing that seems to get money are the banks .. i wish i did accounting now ... the trade is dead and don't believe everything you see in papers " train as a sparky,plumber,chippy make loada money" only the training center make the money from you ... last year a center in birmingham folded owing loads of money to clients who paid for training in all trades even on the day thay folded thay was taking money of students not a nice company ..

 

[pennywise]

Thanks, I am not that concerened about the cost, I cant wait years to get quailified although I am sure you leave with a better understanding that just doing a 4 week course.

Have you any idea what the market is like out there at the moment?

mark

My advise would be to try and find a position with a company as an electricians m8 and get a few years experience. Passing a short course means absolutely sweet FA, I did a full apprenticeship and to be honest I could have completed all the written exams in a year or so and I still would have known nothing but on paper I would have been qualified.A short course just means the customer is going to be paying for you to learn and muck up on their jobs, Your first practical experience should be done under the supervision of a qualified electrician so he can lay down a good base of installation know how and working practices. I'm not trying to put you off or get all high and mighty about the full apprenticeship Vs short course Issue but gain the experience before you embark on your own, it'll take you 3-4 years minimum there are no short cuts in my eyes. cheers good luck.

 

[markj82]

Thanks again.

What are you views on business, is there much out there? or is it over crowded?

Mark

 

[ezzzekiel]

long time establishd sparks ar scraping by, new firms not much hope especially for the untrained

 

[Adam W]

No there isn't much work out there. The domestic market is jam packed full of people who have found there isn't "money in computers" anymore and were suckered in by the "There's loadsa money in trades now" training companies who sell you a load of certificates which don't mean anything.

At worst you're looking at jumping on the bandwagon late.
At best you still have time to look for the next 'Get rich quick' scheme.

 

[KEVINDOE]

Also, another thing to mention is the compitition that comes from rogue traders, semi retired sparks, and sparks that work for firms during the week and do stuff at weekends and evenings on the side, it is almost impossible to compete price wise with the above mentioned and at the moment you would be lucky to fill all five days of the week startin out.
That said , its a good trade, every day and job is different and throws up different problems[ normaly bad].....good luck mate.

 

[caterhamboy]

I am just about to finish my 2nd yr city and guilds 2330 and out of a group off 15 ,7 have lost there jobs this yr, i work for a small company and we are only doing 3 days a wk on average and he has been in the game for 20+ yrs with good reputation. I am going to finish my 3rd yr and try and move onto something else as the market seams saturated with pay to match.

 

[cantabrian9]

DONT EVEN THINK ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!! i finished my apprenticeship in1967 and the trade is steadily going down hill you get paid minimal amount of money for a lot of knowledge (we can KILL water and wood ETC can be seen!!!!!) show a jib ticket on a site and you will be laughed at!! think it over and all the BEST

 

[CP Electrics]

Dont bother, its tough out there,

 

[ezzzekiel]

a lot to blame on these wonder courses too which have watered down the trade added to this large site work going down the drain.

 

[lloyd1980]

I would not even consider it at the moment
You seem like you want to pay 5k to become 'an electrician' youll then turn up to someones house with shiny boots and tools, and possibly a van. youll end up putting your foot through a ceiling or screwing through cable when laying floorboards back ( easily done ) , or a fault will develop when your in the premesis and you wont know where to start or how to fathom it out
all this will lead very quickly to a bad reputation and word will spread very very quickly, builders will then not touch you and people will avoid you

My honest advice to you is to do the full 3 year course and gain a few years experience before thinking of going self employed, there are no short cuts mate to learning a trade, it takes time and you cant simply buy the knowledge you need.
It will be hard and you will be expected by the older sparks to do the **** jobs and make the brews and clean up their **** , you will basically be the ***** untill youve paid your dues like all other learners.

once you come out the otherside you can be proud of what youve achieved and hold your head up high amongst other trades as we ARE the best and its a cracking career

dont mean to be negative mate just giving the facts, and I really wish you well and good luck to you

Lloyd

 

[m25maintenance]

sounds like an advert letting us know u can get our web site to top of list, ha ha

 

[lloyd1980]

why dont you stick at that!!!
plenty of sparks needing SEO services

Cu Connected Electrical contractors, domesitc and commercial electrician services based in Chester covering Cheshire, North Wales, Wirral

 

[markj82]

Thanks all.

And your correct about SEO, one of the things that did attract me is that as a trade, electricaians generally have crap websites and seo. And I am sure I can get my website to the top, very sure.

I am not that conceenered about looking an idiot at a customers, wont be the first time.

Thanks all again.

Looking bleak though


Mark

 

[Noddy67]

my two-penneth is endorsing what's been said previously about short-training courses.

i almost did a short course (4k?) but instead did the level 2, 2330. full time for a year. it sounds painful, but it's only 39 weeks a year, only 2.5 days a week (tops) and when you get a bit older time flies anyway (I'll be off to level 3 next year but will take the testing and regs certs in a few weeks).

But i do know that what i've learnt in this year is over-and-above what was in the course. The tutors get the syllabus (sp?) done but talk around the individual areas to show you how it all fits together. Not something i'd have found in a text book.

you keep wanting to know if it makes money. i'm only in the infancy of starting but i have to consider that what an experienced sparks would do in a day, would probably take me two days to do. The client isn't going to pay over the odds to see me train, so effectively i'll be similar money to an electricians mate for a good few years... and i guess they'll be times when i'll feel very alone in a clients house as i try and work something out that would normally have come with experience.

It's a proper and involved trade and so if it's big pay you're looking to, from-the-off, it's probably not right. But then nothing worth achieving is easy and i'd trust anyone who told me that there was "easy money" in a trade as much as I trust those emails from nigeria i keep getting.

good luck -

 

[mogga]

you dont trust them Emails from Nigerea so I ddint have an unknown family relative die n leave me 7 million?? chit the Aston will have to go back

 

[wh666-666]

There's no money in this trade at the minute. There are experiences sparkys on here who can't find any work. For a lot of self-employed people, their phone isn't even ringing.

Remember there are hundreds of people every month doing the same course as you. The 'lack of electricians' is a myth. There's not that much money in it at the best of times, and the earn £50k/year you hear about is carp.

Exactly, great advice here!

No there isn't much work out there. The domestic market is jam packed full of people who have found there isn't "money in computers" anymore and were suckered in by the "There's loadsa money in trades now" training companies who sell you a load of certificates which don't mean anything.

I would agree with you on companies milking individuals selling them useless courses.

However I disagree with you on the work not being out there, it is, but you have to adapt. I actually work in IT and wages arent as high nowadays as they once were, but the work is there.

However people have to get real. You cannot expect to charge people numbers picked out of the air and call out charges. Credit isnt free flowing, so there will be less goons throwing money away. Adapt or starve.

My advise would be to try and find a position with a company as an electricians m8 and get a few years experience. Passing a short course means absolutely sweet FA, I did a full apprenticeship and to be honest I could have completed all the written exams in a year or so and I still would have known nothing but on paper I would have been qualified.A short course just means the customer is going to be paying for you to learn and muck up on their jobs, Your first practical experience should be done under the supervision of a qualified electrician so he can lay down a good base of installation know how and working practices. I'm not trying to put you off or get all high and mighty about the full apprenticeship Vs short course Issue but gain the experience before you embark on your own, it'll take you 3-4 years minimum there are no short cuts in my eyes. cheers good luck.

Best advice so far and would be my exact advice as well!

By the time I realised when I was younger that the acedemic route wasnt for me and I really wanted to do an apprenticeship, I was too old! If anyone is still under 21 I would advise they pick up a trade while they can.

Working as an electricians mate is very good. I've worked alongside/under Eelectricians before and the experience really is invaluable. Alas I still havnt got all my certification, however the way the industry is at the moment, il stay where I am for now.

In nearly all skilled industries, employers and those in the same profession will laugh you out/tell you where to go quite graphically, if you have qualifications only. Many need qualifications and experience, however some may settle just for experience and be prepared to help you with qualifications.

 

[JB1975]

I would not even consider it at the moment
You seem like you want to pay 5k to become 'an electrician' youll then turn up to someones house with shiny boots and tools, and possibly a van. youll end up putting your foot through a ceiling or screwing through cable when laying floorboards back ( easily done ) , or a fault will develop when your in the premesis and you wont know where to start or how to fathom it out


Lloyd

AHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA

Lloyd, I remember doing that when I was an apprentice. I put my foot through a ceiling on one job and another job I dropped a lump hammer of a ladder and it fell into a shiny new toilet and cracked it!!! Luckily enough that was 18 years ago and I was my Dads apprentice so I didnt get sacked!

 

[lloyd1980]

AHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA

Lloyd, I remember doing that when I was an apprentice. I put my foot through a ceiling on one job and another job I dropped a lump hammer of a ladder and it fell into a shiny new toilet and cracked it!!! Luckily enough that was 18 years ago and I was my Dads apprentice so I didnt get sacked!

some of the apprentices in my old firm were out standing

one put his foot through a ceiling, another knocked over an antique china cabinate full of expensive plates and tea pots smashing the lot

another decided to use his inititive when we werent there and took the mains drill with a chissel bit on, chased the kitchen wall and hit a water pipe - kitchen flooded

another used to chip boxes out with so much enthusiasm, that if it was single brick wall, you could guarantee the brick would be knocked thru into the next room

another was clustrophobic and scared of heights, if up a ladder his knees would start to knock

they were indeed outstanding - but they all tried hard and no doubt dont make these mistakes any more

 

[DurhamSparky]

in my learning days with 3 Rivers Housing i IR'd a circuit at 500v while the spark was untwisting the CpC on a socket....lol..

all i heard was AWWWWHHHH!!! BANG !! SMASH!! as he jumped backwards into the little old ladies decorative plate rack..!! lol.. me and the other spark nearly died laughing!!

 

[bluebird]

Hi all you out there,thought Id introduce myself.
I went to college for 3 years doing my 2330 course and just got my level 3 certs.im unemployed at the moment and was thinking of taking my 2392 but the way things are at the moment is it worth paying out extra money for qualifications if theres no jobs and they arnt woth the paper theyre written onWhats going on.Are other trades e.g.plumbers gion through the same and whats happened to the electrical trade?.why have we let it get to this stage.Everyone seems to be goin on these 5 day wonder courses and flooding our trade.Why cant we have a set standard for everyone and do the 3 years at college like most of us who want to try and do it the right way.
Sory if I sound like a whinger but ive always wanted to be an electrician but im wishing id gone into something else now.
Bluebird

 

[KWCFC]

some of the apprentices in my old firm were out standing

one put his foot through a ceiling, another knocked over an antique china cabinate full of expensive plates and tea pots smashing the lot

another decided to use his inititive when we werent there and took the mains drill with a chissel bit on, chased the kitchen wall and hit a water pipe - kitchen flooded

another used to chip boxes out with so much enthusiasm, that if it was single brick wall, you could guarantee the brick would be knocked thru into the next room

another was clustrophobic and scared of heights, if up a ladder his knees would start to knock

they were indeed outstanding - but they all tried hard and no doubt dont make these mistakes any more

Im an apprentice, and this is why Im glad the company doesnt do domestic!

Commercial and Industrial for me, any mistakes alot easier to rectify and no antique cabinets lying around!

 

[cantabrian9]

good trade WAS,!! good money WAS,!! qualifications not needed (was) i like many others on this forum i have worked with TOE-RAGS, they never needed no tickets some of em could not even read a drawing (what can the spark industry DO??)

 

[m25maintenance]

ok it depends where u live, and luck can be helpfull. i got a call one evening from a schoolin london who saw my advert for electrical work and maintenance. they asked if i could fix a leaking toilet so as i was in the area i popped over did d job in one hour but boy was i lucky as iv wakled into a gold mine. that school hires me almost twice a week for all their maintenance needs and i now do 3 of their schools at 200 a day. i also do regular weekly work for 60 nhs offices in london. i did 8 months course last year and i aint looked back. as sum lads said word of mouth is everything. so follow ur heart and be a good honest worker and the jobs will come in. sorry i cant say where i place my adverts as i dont need the compitition

 

[cantabrian9]

hey M25 when you mentioned the 8 month course you didn,t mean (WE HOPE)that is your qualifications if so it can mean some people are lucky!(don,t take this to heart if you are genuine)

 

[pineappletree]

Ok soinds like some people need informing on the situation with the new qualifications.

After this year 2010/11 2330 is being replaced. There will no longer be a 2330. Summitskills have decided in all their wisdom that you need a job before applying for the course at college. Instead of the 10 units as it stands with the 2330, the new qualification theyre peddling is 15 units.

City & Guilds | Qualification | Coming soon: Diploma in Electrotechnology (Working title)

I think theyre trying to get rid of these 5 days courses as well but i cant seem to find the article again

 

[m25maintenance]

hey M25 when you mentioned the 8 month course you didn,t mean (WE HOPE)that is your qualifications if so it can mean some people are lucky!(don,t take this to heart if you are genuine)

wat cud b lucky about a qualification, im lucky to get the great customers

 

[mike gibbons]

i did my first year at college getting these quals 2251 Level – 1 City & Guilds (Performing Engineering Operations P.E.O)
(Electrical & Electronics Units) NVQ 1.
2800 Level – 1 World of Engineering (Technical Certification for both units).
Electrical: Credit
Electronics: Distinction
Online GOLA: Credit
i got an apprneticeship doing CGLI's in air con and fridge **** hit the fan got made redundent now doing my level 2 following up with out the electronics going in for my level 3 testing and inspecting does that mean i have go do my 17th edition because it's all 17th edition what im learning any help im well confused?

is it even worth carrying on if it's as dry as people making out?

 

[cantabrian9]

well Mike it is really up to you , my self, i wish i had never heard of being a ELECTRICIAN!! 5 yrs of s--t money and you STILL get s--t money, a spark has to do this qualification and that qualification and what REWARDS are there, sweet F.A !!! my cousin worked for the council digging up roads etc for 39 yrs (a bit like Triggers broom!!!) got his self a nice pension, didn,t need the tickets like we are meant to have, become a joiner/shopfitter bang a few nails in here and there and you will make a lot more money than a spark OR live out of a suitcase and just bum it around that is the only way to make REAL MONEY(there will be sparks who will read this and disagree but to get what a shop-fitter gets you have to do a lot of hours) best of luck in your chosen career (or other)

 

[mike gibbons]

i've heard about shop fitting and how good money it is there was a guy i was talking to and he was looking for a sparks mate for shop fitting just it was stupid hours and weird shift patterns all over the country so didn't take up on the offer cos he sd i wouldnt go college, my tutor always bangs on theres loads of work and money but then i think well why are you a tutor then? what actually is a good trade if any? what is the money like in the NW?

 

[Adam W]

Get into farming

 

[mike gibbons]

cherry picking in the orchards? i cant just strole into a farm there usually faimily buisness's aint they?, i'm trying get a apprenticeship in CAD of illustraighter or something but there seems to be nothing for the untrained ATM

 

[Adam W]

Um, no it's a link - you click on the writing and it takes you to a video about getting rich quick from farming.
It's meant to be tongue in cheek, as in the guy makes it sound like money for old rope, when in reality farming is a lot of hard work.

Seriously though have you thought about doing what you want to do, like something you have an interest in?
Having a passion for something makes it easier to go the extra mile and reach the top of the game, which is where the money is.

...And I wouldn't exactly call being an electrician a job "for the untrained".

 

[mike gibbons]

Um, no it's a link - you click on the writing and it takes you to a video about getting rich quick from farming.
It's meant to be tongue in cheek, as in the guy makes it sound like money for old rope, when in reality farming is a lot of hard work.

Seriously though have you thought about doing what you want to do, like something you have an interest in?
Having a passion for something makes it easier to go the extra mile and reach the top of the game, which is where the money is.

...And I wouldn't exactly call being an electrician a job "for the untrained".

ill have a look at the link, i thought of electronics because of technology moving forward i thought it was a good move and the other half of the course was electrical so doing it i was talking to alot of apprentice sparks and they said it was good money but doing my first year trying get an apprenticeship didn't work out because nobody was offering anything for the untrained i mean by that rather than the hassel of a 17 year old being a liability and not really doing anything useful nobody was even interested because it takes time for an apprentice when we both know time is money, so im ****ed really i dont know what to train in i cant get any experience so even when i qualify job chances are slim and im 19 in a year so not got much motivation for retraining tbh. i had a apprenticeship in air con and refrigeration and got made redundent thats why im doing my level 2 again lukily i have 6 weeks to learn everything for my final exams.

 

[Adam W]

Well when I was 19 I worked in a pub before minimum wage was introduced, and left with pretty much the same job prospects as when I started.
I started college when I was 25, which is too old for an employer to get any government subsidy and they're very unlikely to take on someone with no qualifications and little experience so had to pay for the courses myself and work through agencies.
Needless to say I wish I'd tried harder to get an apprenticeship when I was your age.