Employer wants paying for IPAF course

[edexlab]

I've got a new job starting next month and my current employer is saying I have to pay for an IPAF course I did last November
I had to sign for the card when company received it, and i just put a scribble on it ,

I was told it was just saying I'd received the card, never read it ( my bad) and its come to light that I was actually signing saying that if I was to leave within 12 months that I would be liable for the £170.00 fees

I know this is common practice these days as long as the rules are followed but I've never had to sign anything like this at work tbh I didn't realise they could do it!

However I don't think it's fair to be charged fully for something for which the company may have claimed something back from the taxman ,
plus the company has had the benefit of me being able to use mewps etc for work for nearly 8 mths

I've looked at various legal sites and this contract is only valid with several inclusions

1 that the employee is clear that they are liable

2 the employee has to agree to the money being taken out at source

3 that costs should be agreed to be on a sliding scale as they've had the benefit of use of the training.

None of which has been explained in any form by the company to anyone.

Not neccesarily looking to get out of this just because of the money I just feel that they haven't done things properly and it's not fair

But they are leaving the door open for me and I would prefer to do this without burning bridges if possible
Has anyone had a similar experience or any advice on this

 

[Zdb]

Usually only have to pay back 50% after 6 months

 

[ruston]

Personally I would pay it, especially if the course is still of value to you and may have helped you secure your new job. Be kind to those you meet on the way up , as you may need them on the way down.

 

[Darkwood]

Agree with Ruston, they may have not followed protocol to the T but is it worth plucking the feathers you may need to fly in future.
As a company I can probably see that open door closing if you exit on a contentious issue like this and an open door to a job is a valuable fall back in today's work environment.
As others have said, you may be benefiting from having the card in your new job and this is at your previous companies expense, they are only protecting their investment with you, it is only worth contending if you are certain your future does not lie back at that company ... look at it more as a holding fee for returning to your job although it isn't it may sweeten the dent in the wallet.

 

[edexlab]

Not a benefit in new job however it expires in 3 years so maybe useful later.

I agree with you both Darkwood and Ruston,
I'm not a believer in burning bridges and like to treat people fairly
However when I'm pretty certain they've claimed it as a taxable allowance it seems wrong that they also profit by charging me on top, it sounds a little fraudulent.

However I'm going to talk to my Boss nicely if they say I have to pay I'll ask for a receipt so that I can try and claim it back

This way they recoup their costs, I hopefully will get something back and everyone is happy ......

I'm thinking if they've already put it through last years accounts, it'll be more hassle than its worth and they'll drop it.

I know this company really want me to stay, they haven't offered more money as I'm moving into a different role with a lot more progression technically so no point trying to convince me to stop in existing role
but they've actually given me a good reference which is unheard of here!

Unlikely I'll go back but never say never!

 

[Risteard]

I disagree. Don't pay it if they've been so sneaky about the inclusion of this term.

 

[Darkwood]

I am not sure why the companies tax standings come into this, it is almost like you think they are pulling some sort of financial tax trick, yes it will go down as expenses on gross income and will just mean they are relieved from paying tax on that amount not that they get the £190 back, all they have saved is a small tax % of the £190 so it still is a financial cost the company pays for you to go on that course.

 

[edexlab]

I realise it's a tax allowance not full amount ,

This company is always trying to screw the employees ie in 4 years I've never received exactly the right expenses back they nearly always dispute the exchange rates and knock it down same with wages they knock overtime off or change the rules and try and pay us a different rate


I've stayed for the experience and everyone compensates the losses by adding a couple of hours here and there, it's a badly run company but financially extremely successful.

Just feel they've not done things properly or fairly

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Not a benefit in new job however it expires in 3 years so maybe useful later.

I agree with you both Darkwood and Ruston,
I'm not a believer in burning bridges and like to treat people fairly
However when I'm pretty certain they've claimed it as a taxable allowance it seems wrong that they also profit by charging me on top, it sounds a little fraudulent.

However I'm going to talk to my Boss nicely if they say I have to pay I'll ask for a receipt so that I can try and claim it back

This way they recoup their costs, I hopefully will get something back and everyone is happy ......

I'm thinking if they've already put it through last years accounts, it'll be more hassle than its worth and they'll drop it.

I know this company really want me to stay, they haven't offered more money as I'm moving into a different role with a lot more progression technically so no point trying to convince me to stop in existing role
but they've actually given me a good reference which is unheard of here!

Unlikely I'll go back but never say never!

IPAF and PASMA last 5 years.

 

[Silly Sausage]

I've got a new job starting next month and my current employer is saying I have to pay for an IPAF course I did last November
I had to sign for the card when company received it, and i just put a scribble on it ,

I was told it was just saying I'd received the card, never read it ( my bad) and its come to light that I was actually signing saying that if I was to leave within 12 months that I would be liable for the £170.00 fees

I know this is common practice these days as long as the rules are followed but I've never had to sign anything like this at work tbh I didn't realise they could do it!

However I don't think it's fair to be charged fully for something for which the company may have claimed something back from the taxman ,
plus the company has had the benefit of me being able to use mewps etc for work for nearly 8 mths

I've looked at various legal sites and this contract is only valid with several inclusions

1 that the employee is clear that they are liable

2 the employee has to agree to the money being taken out at source

3 that costs should be agreed to be on a sliding scale as they've had the benefit of use of the training.

None of which has been explained in any form by the company to anyone.

Not neccesarily looking to get out of this just because of the money I just feel that they haven't done things properly and it's not fair

But they are leaving the door open for me and I would prefer to do this without burning bridges if possible
Has anyone had a similar experience or any advice on this

Three thoughts ...

1: when you did the course, was it in company time and did they pay you your usual rate?
2: if it irks you that much, you're leaving anyway, let em sue you for it.
3: echoing others above, if said course has improved ones career and wedge earning potential, suck it up babe, you're winning in the end.

 

[Wilko]

Hi - if you don’t engage with them in some way, I’m pretty sure they’ll just take it out of your final pay. So perhaps send them a note saying that you dispute the charges, you do not agree with them being deducted and you are seeking advice.

 

[Lister1987]

Speak to your union? USDAW tend to deal with warehousing and logistics, assuming that's the sector you're in?

 

[Toneyz]

I am a bit confused before I post a comment.
How long does the card last for 3or 5 years and how long since the start date of the card?

 

[edexlab]

It was in work time and paid as per

Doesn't benefit me in new job they insisted we do it even those who said they didn't want to do it

I agree its useful to have a fallback but I'm a little fish in a big pond and never had trouble getting work, although when I was young work was hard to come by so I did jobs, a lot of people nowadays turn their noses up at,

So I do appreciate the fact it can be difficult at times but I know there is always work if you're determined enough to find it.

I'm not in a union and if I was this company would definitely close the door if they were involved

The main thing I think is really that they either deliberately or incompetently didn't inform anyone about this clause and no one has signed anything saying that they give permission to take anything at source other than the usual things such as holiday time used that not been accrued.
Which I think makes this non enforceable
as Wilko suggests

 

[edexlab]

A colleague left this week and I did say he should email stating that he was seeking advice and that the company was not authorised to take the cost of the course from him at this moment until he'd been advised
He's foreign and had no idea about this as it was never explained also his English is basic as he's only been speaking English for about two years now

 

[Markyd]

£170 .......just pay it

 

[PEG]

Did i read a bit that said you signed an agreement to pay this back?

 

[edexlab]

First post explains , but yes signed it thinking it was just to say we'd received the card ie we lose it we replace it
never read it properly the HR person did it a bit sneakily really, spoken to all shopfloor staff none of whom were aware of this agreement

At the time I'd never heard of an employee being liable for forklift or IPAF course costs in this way especially as it's a integral part of that business's needs and not like a trade qualification

For example
Here I've done manual handling, abrasive wheels, harness and things like CSCS some people have done IOSH courses, some cost a great deal more than the IPAF and it was just a case of signing to say you'd attended, no talk of being liable for the costs


if I am liable I will pay it, just wanted to see if others have had this issue before I do anything

 

[Deleted member 26818]

If you really feel that IPAF will be of no use to you, give them back the card, and tell them you don’t want to pay for it, as it’s no use to you.

 

[edexlab]

That'd go down well Spinlondon!

If I'd known they were going to do this I'd never have done the course as I was looking to move , really they should have informed us before booking it!

Its opening a can of worms really as the blokes there will now say that they don't want to do anything in future

I do understand the costs and implications to a company in regard to training especially when there is a high turnover of staff, but they need to treat the staff a bit better and maybe they'll last longer and then training costs won't be wasted

So maybe standing upto them and pointing out the need to do things properly even if I do end up paying will benefit others there