Final decision - No built in isolators for smart meters!

[Guitarist]

I was very disappointed the other day when I phoned British Gas to either get an isolator fitted, or to pull/insert the fuse for me when I while I do a CU change.
They want £31+VAT for the isolator, or I can pay 2 lots of call-out if I want the fuse option. No wonder people resort to just pulling the fuse.

Eon, on the other hand, will fit an isolator and upgrade your tails, if required, for free. Good old BG

 

[nickblake]

IF the DNO came out when required then there would not be a problem , Part ~P happened when a MP's daughter was killed due to a screw through a cable , so if an MP's daughter or son became a spark and was killed whilst removing a fuse for safe isolation then you bet your bottom dollar isolators would be made compulsory , so as far as im concerned i will continue to cut seals and do the job if im prossecuted then ill sue the goverment such narrow minded pratts

 

[Guitarist]

IF the DNO came out when required then there would not be a problem , Part ~P happened when a MP's daughter was killed due to a screw through a cable , so if an MP's daughter or son became a spark and was killed whilst removing a fuse for safe isolation then you bet your bottom dollar isolators would be made compulsory , so as far as im concerned i will continue to cut seals and do the job if im prossecuted then ill sue the goverment such narrow minded pratts

Totally agree.
As a profession, we have been discussing the issue of pulling fuses for safe isolation for decades, yet still nothing gets agreed. Good on Scottish Power for coming up with a sensible solution.
The Number 1 concern for any electrician is to work safely, yet nobody really cares about us.

 

[HandySparks]

Since this thread is running, what would people recommend as PPE for use when fuse-pulling and who sells it at a reasonable price? I'm thinking gloves, visor, goggles, anything else?
(Only when in the SSE area, using their supplied temporary seals, of course.)

 

[Guitarist]

Since this thread is running, what would people recommend as PPE for use when fuse-pulling and who sells it at a reasonable price? I'm thinking gloves, visor, goggles, anything else?
(Only when in the SSE area, using their supplied temporary seals, of course.)

Full face visor/hard hat
Insulated gloves
Insulated mat
Fire extinguisher
First aider on hand

All that said....what do the DNO wear?

 

[i=p/u]

if you were moving cu a few meters would you put isolator beside dno equipment or beside new cu location???

i pull the fuse

 

[StuSpiers]

Full face visor/hard hat
Insulated gloves
Insulated mat
Fire extinguisher
First aider on hand

All that said....what do the DNO wear?

Yhea that's exactly the kit I wear/have at hand when I do it.

Honest.....

 

[i=p/u]

in your rquisiion form

 

[Des 56]

Since this thread is running, what would people recommend as PPE for use when fuse-pulling and who sells it at a reasonable price? I'm thinking gloves, visor, goggles, anything else?
(Only when in the SSE area, using their supplied temporary seals, of course.)

A steady and firm right hand

The safety brigade are not going to like my attitude
I have found all the other ultra safe and over the top H+S garbage too much to consider,after all we are supposed to be aware of the trade in which we work

 

[Knobhead]

What price safety? Apparently the few pounds it would have cost to incorporate an isolator is too much to ensure your safety and compliance with DNO requirements.
Anyone finding there selves on the wrong side of an argument with a DNO / metering company now have another argument to add to their defence.

 

[Poptasticdave]

Realise reading recent threads about fuse pulling hat when I was still working as a spark I either had a couple of lucky escapes or else was blessed with only coming across SH's in exceptionally good nick.

Back in the 80's when I was trained there was no mention of hard hats, visors and gauntlets and so on, and the (I'd be first to say cavalier) attitude of the trainers at the college was "pull the fuse if you think you need to".

BTW, for anyone who saw my posts earlier in the year when I was wondering whether to come back into the fold and re-register, I've given up on the idea. Cost of joining NIC or NAPIT, etc., far too high, cost of insurance nearing prohibitive, but above all else, I just don't have the appetite for the job I did when I was a kid. The only thing left nagging at me now is that if I need any work done on my own house, I'd be very unhappy doing it myself as I have an in-built hatred of contravening regs and laws, even if everyone around me is doing it, but if I got someone in and knew they were not doing as good a job as I know I could I'd be furious ever after. Guess that's just something I have to live with.

Meanwhile I'm sticking to IT training and keeping my C&G up to date to 17th Ed so I can keep training the kids about electrical safety in the IT industry. Hope no one minds if I keep reading this board and occasionally posting the odd note?

As for SmartMeters, with my CITP hat on I've been very minorly involved in working with a consumer organisation on these and I have to say that everything so far points to them being another government waste of £billions which will open up huge privacy and data risks but, perhaps more importantly, a huge opportunity for any kid with a laptop and a wireless network connection to hack in and remotely disconnect or reconnect supplies. They'll have a fight on their hands getting me to have one for electricity and NEVER for gas (Smart Gas meters are currently designed to have solenoid valves in them to allow remote shut off).... imagine the gas going on and off all over the shop!

 

[johnboy6083]

On my HNC course, one of the other students is a trainee designer for UK power, and another 6 are jointers ect for the same company.
She told me that if there is anything wrong with the service head, and they find that you have removed the seals, they will hold the customer liable. She quoted a case where there was arcing duer to a loose terminal, on the live side of the head. As they could see that there was a new CU, they asked if the electrician had tampered with the seals. The customer replied that the electrician had removed the fuses. As such UK power held the customer liable for the cost of the remedial work.

My friend who is MOCOPA trained said that meter fitters are not allowed to check the tightness ofthe live side anyway.

I told the lady from UK power that i do, and will carry on removing fuses. I told her that it was the collective supply industries fault for not taking this golden oppurtunity to incorporate isloation into the meters.

 

[Poptasticdave]

Just occurs to me, in my Grandparents' house, which was built in 1927, the incomer ended in a great big cast iron box, very much like an old "BILL" isolator (but it wasn't Bill brand, don't know what it was but the cover was smooth unlike Bill) with a huge switch lever on the side of it. The cover was only held on with a single wing nut on the top right and there was no facility for sealing it. Out of the top of the box came the two DNO tails to the IN side of the meter and then form the OUT side of the meter were the customer's tails, when I was a kid still into the old wooden fuse box with a glass window in the hinged cover.

There were no other switches at all and Grandma used to switch off the mains with this big lever every time she went away, even if only to stay with us for one night (she also turned off the gas and water too!).

After she died in 1978 we had the house rewired and a Wylex board was fitted (ubiquitous rewirable fuse jobbie in brown bakelite on a wooden frame - it's still there now but has push button MCB's in it these days).

In the mid 1980's my sister and husband moved into the house and because the tails were still cloth covered (and about 5mm2 at a guess!) I suggested that they got he YEB (as it was then) to upgrade the tails. Of course, they took out this old switch-before-the-meter and left it with just the CU switch.

So I wonder why there used to be isolation not just before the CU but before the meter (indeed when they took this box out I saw inside it for the first time ever and realised it had L and N service fuses, both AFTER the switch) and indeed the service fuse, and yet in modern times it's a fight tio even get a DNO to fit isolation on the customer side of the meter??

I can only guess at cost saving?

Seems like we need DNO's to reinvent the Art Deco wheel!!!

 

[Guitarist]

Should be isolation before the CU. End of.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Should be isolation before the CU. End of.

Its amazing, isn't it. It's SO SO obvious.

Why then can all these people in positions of authority not see it, and crawl past the usual wash of mediocrity & ineptitude

 

[Guitarist]

Its amazing, isn't it. It's SO SO obvious.

Why then can all these people in positions of authority not see it, and crawl past the usual wash of mediocrity & ineptitude

In a nutshell, it doesn't affect them, so why should they care....