Discuss Final decision - No built in isolators for smart meters! in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

W

Welchyboy

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So the powers that be have decided that it's too late to include an isolator within the new smart meter, great!

A perfect opportunity to provide solution to an ongoing problem wasted! What's the point???

My money's also on the chances that when the part p consultations come out it will be acceptable for nearly all DIY work to carry on regardless as long as a 'sparky' breifly casts his eye over it afterwards but just enough legislation will stay in place to ensure every honest electrician will continued getting his bum slapped for£500 every year!!!
 
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snowhead

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Mentor
It doesn't stop them making it compulsory to fit an isolator after the meter whenever meters are changed to Smart.

However being able to easily isolate the C.U is more likely to encourage DIY changing of C.U's.
 

Taylortwocities

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Arms
Esteemed
Its all about money.

Time on site to change meter 10 minutes
Time on site to change meter and fit separate isolation switch 25 minutes
 

Des 56

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Arms
Esteemed
The smart thing to do, before they fit these smart meters,is to get smart,then ban their installation until the technology is shown to be efficiency inspired, not the intrusive anti personal freedom monitors that they seem to be capable of being

They wont get access to my installation to fit them without resistance from me
 
B

Barry Rathbone

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
Safe isolation of supply applies surely.
From incoming connection which includes Main incoming Fuse.
After there SHOULD be double pole isolator.
Whats to say someone accidentaly damages your tails after main incoming fuse.

DIY fuse change, some ppl cant change a fuse in a plug...
 

soulman

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Arms
I dont think you'll ever stop the DIY'er unless legislation becomes as strict as gas. I would never sign anybodies work off ever! No matter what happens to part p. It's my name that goes on that cert. As for the isolator, i'll just continue to pull the fuse, i did try & get an isolator fitted for a customer before a new ccu was fitted and it turned out to be a nightmare it took nearly half a day of phone calls and we still didnt manage to get to the right person and nobody actually knew what we were talking about.
 
B

Barry Rathbone

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8
I dont think you'll ever stop the DIY'er unless legislation becomes as strict as gas. I would never sign anybodies work off ever! No matter what happens to part p. It's my name that goes on that cert. As for the isolator, i'll just continue to pull the fuse, i did try & get an isolator fitted for a customer before a new ccu was fitted and it turned out to be a nightmare it took nearly half a day of phone calls and we still didnt manage to get to the right person and nobody actually knew what we were talking about.
Ditto, fuse pulled MY yes MY life saved.If all else fails I'll fit my own 100 SDC, Bows and says goodbye..

But I have a friend that signs off my work, strength in numbers, my name on certs too as designer ..hence happy people.
 
W

Welchyboy

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9
I dont think you'll ever stop the DIY'er unless legislation becomes as strict as gas. I would never sign anybodies work off ever! No matter what happens to part p. It's my name that goes on that cert. As for the isolator, i'll just continue to pull the fuse, i did try & get an isolator fitted for a customer before a new ccu was fitted and it turned out to be a nightmare it took nearly half a day of phone calls and we still didnt manage to get to the right person and nobody actually knew what we were talking about.

Same here I have nothing but problems and hassle when dealing with the DNO and metering companies and when they do turn up it's some monkey with a right attitude looking for the first excuse to walk off site so he can get to his next job, i NEVER intend to involve them in anything unless absolutely unavoidable, and I'm certain this is the way they want it too!

I wonder what they could actually do if you do get caught pulling the fuse when it's monitored?, if all works done spot on to regs and re-sealed afterwards? Would they really bother?, surely it to cut down on electricity theft!, but with no sensible system otherwise in place this is what i intend on doin I'll just backdate my certs by a few days maybe?(not that it won't look obvious)
 

Taylortwocities

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Arms
Esteemed
Not sure why pulling the fuse is the way to go...
If doing a CU change, cut the meter seal (its usually already cut) and remove the tails on the output side.
That is safer than pulling the fuse from a decades old crumbly fuse carrier IMO.
And you are isolating both live conductors.
 
W

Welchyboy

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11
Not sure why pulling the fuse is the way to go...
If doing a CU change, cut the meter seal (its usually already cut) and remove the tails on the output side.
That is safer than pulling the fuse from a decades old crumbly fuse carrier IMO.
And you are isolating both live conductors.
That will probably be the way to do it yes, but to be honest I have only ever seen a DNO fuse carrier in bad condition once i think let alone had to pull one, generally they are in good condition, but obviously you would make a decision on what you find at the time
 
Not sure why pulling the fuse is the way to go...
If doing a CU change, cut the meter seal (its usually already cut) and remove the tails on the output side.
That is safer than pulling the fuse from a decades old crumbly fuse carrier IMO.
And you are isolating both live conductors.
I was told by a DNO "engineer" a while back that they will tolerate seals missing from fuses, but get very funny when they see one missing from a meter as it may indicate tampering.
I wish this whole sorry mess regarding seals would get sorted for once and for all!
 
I've posted here a couple of times about the fuse pulling and what was inferred to me.

In Scotland the SSE allow members of Select/ECA to pull the main fuse and the refit. The electrician can even apply for a set number of Temporary seals and paperwork that is submitted back to SSE and they then retro fit final seals.

This was also being touted as a proposed scheme in England and Wales in regard of scheme members, but the DNo companies baulked on the idea because of the standard of "electrician" that was being allowed into the schemes and they were worried about competency.

How true this is is open to conjecture but I was told this by an old LEC engineer who is still doing consultancy work for the distribution network so still as inside dealings with the DNO

It is strange how in the amendment for the very first time there is a regulation note dealing with DNO fuse pulling 537.1.3. I wonder what the plan is
 

Taylortwocities

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Arms
Esteemed
I don't know about the other SCAMps but if you (ever) work in the SSE area, they will issue anyone registered with NAPIT with seals to re-seal the company fuse. This has been the situation for YEARS.

You should be wearing the appropriate PPE, mind you


 
G

Guest55

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #15
I don't know about the other SCAMps but if you (ever) work in the SSE area, they will issue anyone registered with NAPIT with seals to re-seal the company fuse. This has been the situation for YEARS.

You should be wearing the appropriate PPE, mind you


Mistake number 1 with the above pic - the guy is removing / inserting fuse while the isolator is in the on position so installation is under load thus possibly creating the risk of arcing.
I'd sack him on the spot , putting the whole street in danger in such a cavalier manner.
;-D
 
G

Guest55

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #17
Which leads on to my tip for all the new kids in skinny jeans -
Switch CU off when pulling / fitting the service fuse , less chance of getting your eyebrows toasted.
 

telectrix

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Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
all it needs is for the outgoing pair of terminals on the meter to be ubsealed by means of a split cover. ssimplesss
 

snowhead

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Mentor
all it needs is for the outgoing pair of terminals on the meter to be ubsealed by means of a split cover. ssimplesss

That would mean "LIve working" when disconnecting the tails, they wouldn't want to encourage that.
Then they'd have to ban the supply of 1000v rated screwdrivers etc, and only supply them if you join another Scam.
 

polo1

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Arms
When doing CU changes I now allow for the cost of installing my own isolator, if there isn't one already. Like others, I simply cannot afford the time/cost of trying to get the DNOs involved (and yes, this means fuse removal in the first instance). Where I do come across cast iron heads, often with fused neutrals, then I do make the call, usually "funny smell/noise coming from head". The DNOs know they are running out of time to replace such heads but still don't have significant planned replacement programmes.

Regards
 
I was very disappointed the other day when I phoned British Gas to either get an isolator fitted, or to pull/insert the fuse for me when I while I do a CU change.
They want £31+VAT for the isolator, or I can pay 2 lots of call-out if I want the fuse option. No wonder people resort to just pulling the fuse.

Eon, on the other hand, will fit an isolator and upgrade your tails, if required, for free. Good old BG :)
 
N

nickblake

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #22
IF the DNO came out when required then there would not be a problem , Part ~P happened when a MP's daughter was killed due to a screw through a cable , so if an MP's daughter or son became a spark and was killed whilst removing a fuse for safe isolation then you bet your bottom dollar isolators would be made compulsory , so as far as im concerned i will continue to cut seals and do the job if im prossecuted then ill sue the goverment such narrow minded pratts
 
IF the DNO came out when required then there would not be a problem , Part ~P happened when a MP's daughter was killed due to a screw through a cable , so if an MP's daughter or son became a spark and was killed whilst removing a fuse for safe isolation then you bet your bottom dollar isolators would be made compulsory , so as far as im concerned i will continue to cut seals and do the job if im prossecuted then ill sue the goverment such narrow minded pratts
Totally agree.
As a profession, we have been discussing the issue of pulling fuses for safe isolation for decades, yet still nothing gets agreed. Good on Scottish Power for coming up with a sensible solution.
The Number 1 concern for any electrician is to work safely, yet nobody really cares about us.
 

HandySparks

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Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
Since this thread is running, what would people recommend as PPE for use when fuse-pulling and who sells it at a reasonable price? I'm thinking gloves, visor, goggles, anything else?
(Only when in the SSE area, using their supplied temporary seals, of course.)
 
Since this thread is running, what would people recommend as PPE for use when fuse-pulling and who sells it at a reasonable price? I'm thinking gloves, visor, goggles, anything else?
(Only when in the SSE area, using their supplied temporary seals, of course.)
Full face visor/hard hat
Insulated gloves
Insulated mat
Fire extinguisher
First aider on hand

All that said....what do the DNO wear? :)
 

i=p/u

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Arms
if you were moving cu a few meters would you put isolator beside dno equipment or beside new cu location???

i pull the fuse
 
S

StuSpiers

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #27
Full face visor/hard hat
Insulated gloves
Insulated mat
Fire extinguisher
First aider on hand

All that said....what do the DNO wear? :)
Yhea that's exactly the kit I wear/have at hand when I do it.

Honest.....
 

Des 56

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Arms
Esteemed
Since this thread is running, what would people recommend as PPE for use when fuse-pulling and who sells it at a reasonable price? I'm thinking gloves, visor, goggles, anything else?
(Only when in the SSE area, using their supplied temporary seals, of course.)
A steady and firm right hand

The safety brigade are not going to like my attitude
I have found all the other ultra safe and over the top H+S garbage too much to consider,after all we are supposed to be aware of the trade in which we work
 
K

Knobhead

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #30
What price safety? Apparently the few pounds it would have cost to incorporate an isolator is too much to ensure your safety and compliance with DNO requirements.
Anyone finding there selves on the wrong side of an argument with a DNO / metering company now have another argument to add to their defence.
 
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