Go on Laugh I don't care

[SparkyChick]

Don't think anyone is "dissing" the short courses sparkychick. Its the freedom and confidence it can give to someone who has spent a very short time in training and doesn't understand the dangers to themselves and others that is in discussion.

I don't understand why everyone thinks we are sharing a negative viewpoint

The reason people get irritated is because whenever this subject comes up, there are blanket statements made that imply we're not competent. It certainly gets right up my nose because of what I've seen and experienced since I started my business and I've lost count of how many times I've not waded into the debate, instead sitting back biting my tongue so to speak.

I'm not saying all short coursers are brilliant, because they aren't, but we're not all incompetent idiots either. Just as I'm not saying all apprenticed sparks are garbage, because they aren't, but they aren't all brilliant either.

As for the freedom and confidence it can give someone... if someone is stupid enough not to realise their own limitations, their route into this industry is not going to change a thing. That's if they go and do any form of training at all. They will still go out there and do bad work, but more often than not when bad work is posted it's not long before there is an implication that it's the efforts of a short courser.

Just the other day I witnessed some fine work from a large local firm that's been around for years and years... cracking job, isolating a lighting point that's no longer needed with PVC tape... nice one! Not the first time I've witnessed their amazing standards. And for some balance, I had to tighten all the factory connections and incomers on a new consumer unit installed back in June by someone I believe to be a short courser. Again, not the first time I've encountered his bad work either but a cracking example of how to flagrantly lie on a schedule of test results. Do they understand the dangers they are leaving behind? Clearly not, or it is simply they just don't care. I truly believe it's a combination of both and no amount of training will fix that kind of attitude.

Accept that there are good and bad sparks entering the industry through both routes and don't lump all the bad stuff out there on those of us who went the short course route and we'll all get along just fine.

it's all amatter of degree. once upon a time sparks were looked up to as the senior trade. why, because if a wet-pants gets it wrong, the cat gets a bath. joiner gets it wrong, the cabinet falls on the worktop. sparks gets it wrong, someone dies.

Quite, which is why whenever I encounter a situation I'm not 100% comfortable with, I come and here and ask for advice. That's where the 'anti short courser' sentiment and comments can be a problem. Surely it's better to have people come here and ask questions knowing they won't get abuse than coming here seeing 'short courser bodger', 'boil in the bag sparky' etc. etc. and leave, thus missing out on an opportunity to learn from more experienced people?

I guess the TLDR; for this post is:- Don't tar us all with the same brush, we're not all incompetent and many of us actively want to learn and improve by soaking up knowledge from more experienced people. Those who don't will never come to forums and ask because in their little corner of the universe they already know it all and are capable of anything.

 

[DPG]

Yes, that's one of the main problems - people not being aware of their linitations. In all fields.

 

[oracle]

Going from being able to wire up a two way switch and ring on a metre wide wooden surface without seeing an Installation certificate,much less completing one to trading as an installer leaves them a long way from competent. I’ve seen DIY work done better.

 

[gazdkw82]

The reason people get irritated is because whenever this subject comes up, there are blanket statements made that imply we're not competent. It certainly gets right up my nose because of what I've seen and experienced since I started my business and I've lost count of how many times I've not waded into the debate, instead sitting back biting my tongue so to speak.

I'm not saying all short coursers are brilliant, because they aren't, but we're not all incompetent idiots either. Just as I'm not saying all apprenticed sparks are garbage, because they aren't, but they aren't all brilliant either.

As for the freedom and confidence it can give someone... if someone is stupid enough not to realise their own limitations, their route into this industry is not going to change a thing. That's if they go and do any form of training at all. They will still go out there and do bad work, but more often than not when bad work is posted it's not long before there is an implication that it's the efforts of a short courser.

Just the other day I witnessed some fine work from a large local firm that's been around for years and years... cracking job, isolating a lighting point that's no longer needed with PVC tape... nice one! Not the first time I've witnessed their amazing standards. And for some balance, I had to tighten all the factory connections and incomers on a new consumer unit installed back in June by someone I believe to be a short courser. Again, not the first time I've encountered his bad work either but a cracking example of how to flagrantly lie on a schedule of test results. Do they understand the dangers they are leaving behind? Clearly not, or it is simply they just don't care. I truly believe it's a combination of both and no amount of training will fix that kind of attitude.

Accept that there are good and bad sparks entering the industry through both routes and don't lump all the bad stuff out there on those of us who went the short course route and we'll all get along just fine.



Quite, which is why whenever I encounter a situation I'm not 100% comfortable with, I come and here and ask for advice. That's where the 'anti short courser' sentiment and comments can be a problem. Surely it's better to have people come here and ask questions knowing they won't get abuse than coming here seeing 'short courser bodger', 'boil in the bag sparky' etc. etc. and leave, thus missing out on an opportunity to learn from more experienced people?

I guess the TLDR; for this post is:- Don't tar us all with the same brush, we're not all incompetent and many of us actively want to learn and improve by soaking up knowledge from more experienced people. Those who don't will never come to forums and ask because in their little corner of the universe they already know it all and are capable of anything.

What irritates me are people who don't actually take on board what someone is trying to say and are offended on the back of that.

I have not said these courses are rubbish or everyone who uses them are bad Sparks, bad people, idiots, morons etc etc

I'm trying to be honest and said I think there is a risk after 5 weeks someone (not everyone) thinks they can go operate on their own installing allsorts.

They can't. It needs to be regulated better.

 

[Pete999]

The reason people get irritated is because whenever this subject comes up, there are blanket statements made that imply we're not competent. It certainly gets right up my nose because of what I've seen and experienced since I started my business and I've lost count of how many times I've not waded into the debate, instead sitting back biting my tongue so to speak.

I'm not saying all short coursers are brilliant, because they aren't, but we're not all incompetent idiots either. Just as I'm not saying all apprenticed sparks are garbage, because they aren't, but they aren't all brilliant either.

As for the freedom and confidence it can give someone... if someone is stupid enough not to realise their own limitations, their route into this industry is not going to change a thing. That's if they go and do any form of training at all. They will still go out there and do bad work, but more often than not when bad work is posted it's not long before there is an implication that it's the efforts of a short courser.

Just the other day I witnessed some fine work from a large local firm that's been around for years and years... cracking job, isolating a lighting point that's no longer needed with PVC tape... nice one! Not the first time I've witnessed their amazing standards. And for some balance, I had to tighten all the factory connections and incomers on a new consumer unit installed back in June by someone I believe to be a short courser. Again, not the first time I've encountered his bad work either but a cracking example of how to flagrantly lie on a schedule of test results. Do they understand the dangers they are leaving behind? Clearly not, or it is simply they just don't care. I truly believe it's a combination of both and no amount of training will fix that kind of attitude.

Accept that there are good and bad sparks entering the industry through both routes and don't lump all the bad stuff out there on those of us who went the short course route and we'll all get along just fine.



Quite, which is why whenever I encounter a situation I'm not 100% comfortable with, I come and here and ask for advice. That's where the 'anti short courser' sentiment and comments can be a problem. Surely it's better to have people come here and ask questions knowing they won't get abuse than coming here seeing 'short courser bodger', 'boil in the bag sparky' etc. etc. and leave, thus missing out on an opportunity to learn from more experienced people?

I guess the TLDR; for this post is:- Don't tar us all with the same brush, we're not all incompetent and many of us actively want to learn and improve by soaking up knowledge from more experienced people. Those who don't will never come to forums and ask because in their little corner of the universe they already know it all and are capable of anything.

I certainly haven't tarred everyone with the same brush, in fact I went to great pains in my OP to say that NOT ALL short coursers are bad, and we had some excellent Electricians who participate on this Forum, who have taken the short course route I might have opened Pandora's box with my post, but please don't include me, saying I'm Implying all short course people are a waste of space, as I'm clearly NOT saying that.

My OP was solely started to help me get to the bottom of how the Part P thing and all these short courses came to fruition in the first place, I do however think the CP Schemes are milking the situation, as are the training establishments, promising things they can not really full fill.

You only have to listen to some of the dissatisfied horror stories emanating from this Forum, to see that all is not sweetness and light in the world of "train to be an Electrician".

 

[Sintra]

Let’s keep this thread on topic and answer the original question. Anyone derailing the thread from now on will be receiving a formal warning. This thread is NOT about the pros and cons of the short courses but how and when they came about.

 

[gazdkw82]

Apologies. I had no intention to derail this thread.

It's obviously a sensitive subject.

Back to the OP, Does anyone have any official dates when they first started offering these courses

 

[Pete999]

Apologies. I had no intention to derail this thread.

It's obviously a sensitive subject.

Back to the OP, Does anyone have any official dates when they first started offering these courses

May 2002 Part P consultation document first issued
September 2002 results of consultation published
13th July 2004 first Part PM document laid before Parliament
31st July 2004 MP's daughter tragically killed by electricution
One can only conclude from this information, That the, CP Schemes realised that there was money to be made from offering short qualification courses very soon after the date of this tragedy. a/So in short I'm not sure hoping for an answer.

 

[westward10]

You could have found all this out initially, thread closed.