Heating wiring advice please

[young sparky]

hi guys, wiring a new build and struggling with the heating as haven't done to much of it in the past and looking a bit of advice, have underfloor heating down stairs and radiators up stairs, 4 zones for underfloor and one stay upstairs for radiators, in told by plumber no timeclock is necessary and the house will always have hot water, would really just like a wiring diagram for this, I will post pictures of all the diff devices installed by plumber and if I had a diagram I could take it from there, knowledge of heating systems is very limited, thanks in advance

 

[Taylortwocities]

@young sparky
What you are embarking on is a complex project. There are many aspects to this.

Wiring the underfloor manifold system is going to need quite some thought (I see they did at least provide a wiring centre for you)

You really need an electrician on site who is experienced with heating systems, and you can learn it from him/her. Or go on Honeywell training course. I really do not think you'll ever get what you need from an Internet forum.

You are going to need to think about how you will power the various parts of this, especially so that there is a single point of isolation for all of the Boiler and DHW and heating. Also, there seem to be two immersion heaters to power.

 

[young sparky]

thanks for the reply , yea I don't do too much in this area so knowledge is quite limited to be fair but if I had the correct drawing for this I could at least wire it and if was in any difficulty get another electrician for the second fix, as regard the two immersion heaters only the one (bottom) will be used

 

[Taylortwocities]

Your issue is that there is not one single wiring diagram for this. The external condensing unit and its associated boiler is one project. The UFH manifold is another, the upstairs rads are another, the DHW is another.

Also, how has the plumber done his system? S, plan, Y plan or some other plan.
The standard variations are to be found here
Wiring Guide Issue 16 - Honeywell
As you can see there are lots to choose from!

But, as I say, what you are dealing with is not mainstream. You'll have multiple calls for heat to the boiler, so you'll need to decide how that will be achieved.
Does the boiler have its own internal over-run pump. How will the heating be timed, do the stats have their own individual timers?

 

[Taylortwocities]

PS I also wonder about this

told by plumber no timeclock is necessary and the house will always have hot water

That is a big tank. I would want the hot water to be timed, oltherwise you are keeping the tank full of hot water 24/7. And how about holidays? Most people likle to turn off the DHW and turn the heating down when they go away.

 

[davesparks]

Looks pretty simple, you just need to find out what controls are wanted for the upstairs and hot water zones.
The wiring diagram for the underfloor system should have been provided with the control box, if not a quick internet search should find it.

 

[young sparky]

So far I just pulled cables in for the room stats and out to boiler, all is downstairs is the manifold and a pump, boiler is outside and the tank is upstairs, it's just getting my head around what goes where as this is pretty new, the fact there is no timeclock is baffling me a little tho

 

[Taylortwocities]

If no time clock, the DHW will be controlled merely by the cylinder temperature stat.

 

[young sparky]

All wiring drawing of this seem to include a time clock, have found a few similar to my situation, but nothing the same

 

[Taylortwocities]

The time clock is just an on switch. Just wire it as if the click is always on.

 

[sweet212]

Young Sparky,

It really helps to know what each part of the heating system does on the plumbing side as well as the electrical side of things.

James

 

[young sparky]

Yea James definitely, but want to just get this wired and get someone with a bit more experience on these to give me a hand with the 2nd fix of it, plumber on site wasn't much help really and didn't really want to help too much, but it's something I want to learn a lot more about, been doing industrial for last 8 years but last couple of rewires I done on the odd occasion I got another guy to sort the heating, unfortunately I never took in whatvwas going on with it but need to start to learn more about it

 

[davesparks]

So far I just pulled cables in for the room stats and out to boiler, all is downstairs is the manifold and a pump, boiler is outside and the tank is upstairs, it's just getting my head around what goes where as this is pretty new, the fact there is no timeclock is baffling me a little tho

How did you know what cables to install without a wiring diagram or knowing what you need?

Something that really annoys me when I'm connecting up heating which has been 1st fixed by someone else is seeing a lot of cable wasted because they just pull in twice as many cables as necessary 'just in case'

 

[ferg]

The thing with anything new is to take your time to understand it.

Failing that follow the instructions blindly and hope for the best.

It's not really as complicated as you are making it.

Just spend a couple of hours with the diagrams in peace and quiet and you should be fine.

It's mostly just basic logic. AND OR.

 

[Taylortwocities]

It's mostly just basic logic. AND OR

With a handful of IFTTT

 

[Bsharp]

Don’t be put off or daunted by heating they are a piece of p**s once you understand what you are trying to achieve, the system you show above I.e hot water, heating(rads) and underfloor heating and External oil fired boiler
Isn’t as complex as you’d think.
The UFH as said earlier will have its own wiring centre for the pump the stat or stats I presume with having four zones you’ll have four stats and at least four actuators the connection of this is simple with the fully labelled wiring centre supplied.
In effect you have three switched lives to fire a boiler each passing through stats which in turn open a valve which supplied a switch live to the boiler. Simplest way is a two channel clock heating got water and programmable room stats for each of the UHF zones. Sorry if this sounds a bit long winded but as I say a lot easier than you’d expect as said before quiet place few diagrams and no worries.

 

[Last plumber]

Young Sparky,

It really helps to know what each part of the heating system does on the plumbing side as well as the electrical side of things.

James

You would be best off with a Heating Engineer rather than a Plumber.

 

[Marti]

This has raised an interesting point; hope I'm not off-topic. I'm Level two with a couple of years site time heading to Level Three. What's the best way to get to grips with heating wiring? I understand how boiler pumps etc interact and I can read the S and Y but, as has been said many times in here, this does not a skilled Sparky make. What's your thoughts ladies and gents?

 

[Marti]

IFTTT

???

 

[Taylortwocities]

???

And I thought you young people were tech savvy!
It stands for
IF THIS THEN THAT
IFTTT - https://ifttt.com/about

 

[Taylortwocities]

This has raised an interesting point; hope I'm not off-topic. I'm Level two with a couple of years site time heading to Level Three. What's the best way to get to grips with heating wiring? I understand how boiler pumps etc interact and I can read the S and Y but, as has been said many times in here, this does not a skilled Sparky make. What's your thoughts ladies and gents?

Honeywell do some excellent courses on the subject. You’ll find them on their web site.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Just learn the colours of the valves and what they do and the sequence of switching then all will become clear.

Two port valve.... Grey perm live, brown switch live from controls, blue neutral, green and yellow earth and orange switch live to boiler and pump..unless the boiler has pump over run then the pump is connected to the pump live terminal in the boiler.

Order of sequence/switching.... programmer, thermostat, valve, boiler and pump.

Say this is for the CH....CH on connects to common of room thermostat, switch live from thermostat connects to brown of the valve and orange of the valve connects to switch live of the boiler.

It's just a load of switching in series.

 

[Marti]

See some good reviews of the Honeywell course so that's me mixing it with the plumbers for a day. Do I have to wear my trousers half way over my arse to get in?

 

[Leesparkykent]

See some good reviews of the Honeywell course so that's me mixing it with the plumbers for a day. Do I have to wear my trousers half way over my arse to get in?

You might have to talk very slowly and try not to use any big words

 

[Marti]

Now...now ...I have met plumbers who can use a knife and a fork AT THE SAME TIME. Probably showing off to the plasterers