How many regs

[Marvo]

Okay I have a question for the trainees.

A friend of mine installed himself and extra socket last weekend. He dismantled an existing socket and drilled through the rear of the backbox into the adjacent room and surface mounted a new socket over the drilled hole and connected with a CAT5 cable. The only materials he used for the job was 1x steel backbox, 1xdouble switched socket and 400mm of CAT5e cable. Because of a difference in floor height between the two rooms the plugs wouldn't go into the socket because the cable in the plug was squashing tight against the floor. To work around this he mounted the new socket upside down so the plugs would go in easier.

How many regulations has he broken?
If you were filling out an EICR what codes would you give for the regulation infringements?

And before you ask I have no idea what the answer is so you'll have to fight it out amongst yourselves

 

[Marvo]

Hmmm, nobody willing to even take a stab? This wasn't a trick question....honest

 

[Paul.M]

I've PM-ed you my answers.

Come on lads, have a go then a debate may start about it?

 

[Marvo]

Thanks Paul, I replied to your PM. I didn't think this would be such a scary question to be honest....or are the trainees just being a bunch of girls blouses...

 

[Paul.M]

Lets get the ball rolling Marvo.

What is wrong with using CAT5 cable for a double socket lads? And why???

 

[Toby Kuhnert]

CAT5 is data cable, stranded and very thin, probably about 0.5mm2? not fit for purpose that's for sure! haha "I think I smell something burning!!"

 

[Toby Kuhnert]

not that there's anything wrong with stranded cable!!

 

[High Tower]

Ahh there is that good old South African inginuity again!, no one can ever accuse you guys of becoming a throw away society

 

[Marvo]

Lol, yeah, we take recycling to a whole new level that's for sure.

CAT5 is data cable, stranded and very thin, probably about 0.5mm2? not fit for purpose that's for sure! haha "I think I smell something burning!!"

Yep the CAT 5 cable wouldn't have an appropriate CSA for a radial circuit supplying a socket. What code would you think for this on the EICR?

 

[Toby Kuhnert]

I've never done an eicr, but it is a serious issue as it could potentially result in fire. c1?

 

[Toby Kuhnert]

also the amount of voltage drop would be huge! considering the tiny csa and long length..

 

[Toby Kuhnert]

Also, I haven't worked it out via the adiabatic equation, but surely the CPC would be insufficiently sized too! will look up reg numbers later to try and apply them to this...

 

[Marvo]

I'm not sure of the correct code to be honest, I've never done an EICR either. The volt drop across the cable would be high depending on the size of the load because the CSA of the wires is way too small. Finally you're correct again that the CPC is inadequate. I wouldn't bother with formulas in a case like this where the cable is being used in the wrong application, the fact it's a data cable would make it unsafe beyond doubt regardless of what the numbers say.

I'm very interested to see if anyone can find a breach in the UK regs with the socket mounted upside down at floor level. This alone would fail on account of at least 2 separate regs where I am.

 

[Paul.M]

I wonder what size MCB/fuse is protecting that Cat5 cable. Hint hint.

 

[Toby Kuhnert]

20A or 32A MCB depending on whether its a ring final or radial... the cable couldn't handle that under load

 

[Sparky_Steve]

should have used Cat5e then it has an earth i think

 

[Paul.M]

One of the golden rules for any electrician is that the fuse/mcb/rcbo must be a lower ratting than the cable. What can the cable handle?

Also there is a reg stating that sockets must fed by a csa of xxxxxx mm. See if you can find the reg?

 

[shanky887614]

its not a straight forward answer as the manufacters instructions will say design current.

for example usually 2.5mm is recomended as 16amps even though it can hold around 2X amps.

with tri rated cable 1.5mm can carry 2X amps acording to manufacter

would you wire sockets in 1.5 tri rated, no simply because it will cause grief when someone goes to do a pir etc in future and think its standard cable.



i doubt cat5 is designed for 230/240v as its a data cable so i wouldnt use it.

seen some right dodgy stuff, a newbuild i got dragged to help 2nd fix (people living there)

had 6MM TWIN from CUTOUT to 100A mainswitch as temp supply


is it right/legal, no will it stop people doing it, no

 

[shanky887614]

should have used Cat5e then it has an earth i think

no i think the difference is how the pairs are twissted.


never heard of 2.5mm core cat5 so shouldnt be ussed

 

[Happy Jack]

Just chipping in.

I'm very interested to see if anyone can find a breach in the UK regs with the socket mounted upside down at floor level.

Well, Part M of the Building Regulations is fairly fresh in my mind. But 553.1.6 appears to cover it.

One of the golden rules for any electrician is that the fuse/mcb/rcbo must be a lower ratting than the cable. What can the cable handle?

Ay. Ib < In < Iz. Assuming the worst case scenario via the specification of CAT5e, an AWG of 26 translates to approximately 0.13mm2. Even if I knew absolutely nothing else about the cable, that alone would be enough to invoke a fairly serious response.

Also there is a reg stating that sockets must fed by a csa of xxxxxx mm. See if you can find the reg?

433.1.103, also mentioned in the OSG, the third paragraph p.175, Appendix H.

So how many Regs? I would imagine this infraction has fallen foul of a dozen, at least. But surely it just needs to be one...