Just starting out - advice appreciated, banter gratefully received!

[fall-apart-dave]

Hello chaps

I'm an ex-RAF engineer (electronics - TG3/4 for anyone ex-RAF), and then moved to offshore as a geophysics engineer (that was more a multi-skilled role involving hydraulics, electrical, compressors, electronics, IT, sat comms etc) on a ship.

After taking voluntary redundancy (successive pay cuts over the last couple of years, greater expectation of time away and expected to be "on call" at all times when not away offshore, it went from being the best job I ever had to the very worst!), I've spent my redundancy pittance (I was badly stitched up) on qualifying as an electrician. So, did the Domestic Installers package offered by PASS to add to my existing quiver of qualifications (mostly electronic and electrical) and thought I would try my hand at being an electrician and working for myself.

So, having just finished the installers package (barring the full scope part P section) I am now ready to go. So, for you chaps out there I'd very much appreciate a few pointers...

CPS schemes - is there a difference between them? I am in touch with NICEIC at the moment, but have noticed that STROMA are much cheaper. Or is it very much of a muchness?

Test equipment - I was looking at procuring a Megger MFT 1720, I am familiar with it and it's a nice bit of kit, but do I need such a high-end one? The price difference is quite a bit between these and more basic models, the type of work I am hoping to start with is commercial and domestic stuff, from fault finding and repairs to re-wires and installations, my line of thinking has always been "Buy the best you can afford" - but would I be overkilling it here?

Advertising and picking up work - what do you chaps find works best? I mean, sticking an advert in the local paper and in the Yellow Pages, using sites like rated people and check a trade all seem like good ideas, but I would love some more advice there (though I appreciate that giving advice to potential competitors is perhaps not smart! Haha!)

So far, I have a suitable car (an estate car that doesn't mind being used as a work horse, complete with roof bars etc), a pretty comprehensive tool kit from my previous employment offshore, some test equipment that has always served me well, and a business plan, all I am really missing is a CPS and a multi-function tester, and of course some customers! My aim is to actually progress a little way from electrical work and add to the business once I have established myself a little, though that plan is a little way off and so I'll leave it out for now.

So, any pointers anyone can give would be very much appreciated, and I shall no doubt be popping up from time to time for advice on bits and pieces in the future!

Toodle pip!

Dave

 

[Richard Burns]

Welcome to the forum and good luck with your progress toward electricianing!

Competent person schemes as a base provide notification to building control and that is it. They all do this and in much the same way, so you take your pick.
Thereafter you have to look at the additional factors that may affect your choice, which tend to be recognition by companies, councils, insurance companies and in this case NICEIC comes top. However if you inquire further most (not all) of them (except idiot councils) will accept other registrations as well.
Then you look at cost Stroma being the cheapest and BSI the most expensive.
It does depend what you want from the scheme, recognition, help, additional support, contacts, etc.

For an MFT you want one with the usual tests continuity, IR (100-500V), EFLI / PFC, RCD (10-500mA and time delayed).
Additional features that are useful are ramp testing RCDs, and phase rotation.
If you have these then you have most things you need for a testing a new installation. If you are doing fault finding then you would probably want to buy separate testers for current flow (clamp meter), voltage non contact and contact (a contact voltage tester, you probably already have), possibly cable and fuse tracing, fluorescent lamp testing, etc. but these could come later.
Bluetooth downloading and so on are probably not really needed.
If you are familiar with the Meggers then a Megger would be easy to start with but there are other brands out there that are just as good.

Word of mouth and local advertising in newspapers and village magazines are the best approaches, yellow pages and the third party service providers are not at all good choice, but can work for some. Expect things to start slowly unless you have contacts in building and construction.

onward and upward.

 

[sparksburnout]

Good look fall apart. Richard has covered the electrical side perfectly as usual. Just to re-iterate, join Stroma they are cheap and you will not benefit from joining the others in any way. If you are going to do much domestic work, use a local rag rather than yell or the other crap, once you get going word of mouth is the best way. Hopefully you might get in with local builders, but watch them they are all tight sods. As long as you have a good grasp of the electrical side, it will be all the other stuff that will possibly pose the problems, as (in my experience ) being a house basher involves 10% electrical skills and the rest is competency in carpentry, stone masonry, plastering, a bit of plumbing, all round provision of design, planning and common sense to the great British public who will see you as the answer to all their problems. You won't believe how long you can spend debating how many Downlights of which colour temperature are needed in the Smiths new extension. Add to this working in the freezing cold, under floors and in ****ty lofts and you will wish you had never left the RAF. And on top,of,which there are some prats out there who change out CU's for £180. It's not bad though, really, working for yourself is very rewarding, get yourself a good accountant. GOOD LUCK!!

 

[GETWIRED]

Careful what you post on here mate, theres some prats out there that will consider your qualifications "not proper" when they are rather under qualified themselves.

get in with a good letting agent, they tend to supply steady work when you are quiet. Also try and get in with other sparks that do well, subby now and then.

Good luck.

 

[davesparks]

Unfortunately you have been conned by PASS if they have told you that doing a domestic installer qualification makes you an electrician, it doesn't.
Whilst I don't doubt that you have excellent technical knowledge from your previous trade there is a massive lack of training given in the course you have done. I have worked with a few people who have done those courses and they have honestly been a danger to themselves and other people.

 

[7029 dave]

Unfortunately you have been conned by PASS if they have told you that doing a domestic installer qualification makes you an electrician, it doesn't.
Whilst I don't doubt that you have excellent technical knowledge from your previous trade there is a massive lack of training given in the course you have done. I have worked with a few people who have done those courses and they have honestly been a danger to themselves and other people.

Why blow him out of the water?, he is keen and got straight into the forum, hoo ra to him.

 

[fall-apart-dave]

Thanks for the warm welcome

I did chuckle at the post about some folk not liking my qualifications, followed by a post saying my course is not proper. Thats not a pop at anyone, I genuinely chuckled. I do see where you are coming from Davesparks, but OASS never said it would make me an electrician. But what I do now have is the correct qualifications, with recognition of prior learning and experience, to resgister with a cps. As you say, 14 years of messing about with 20kV klystron tubes, huge valve based HF transmitters, sending a few kv to the seabed and arcing a few thousand joules in the sea to create plasma balls for various purposes is good experience for working with 230v and 400v ac. I learned a lot working on ships especially, believe me maritime and MCA regs are a good deal tighter than domestic in some respects, so good working practice is well ingrained. I appreciate and understand the concerns

Getwired, I see what you are saying buddy, but I have not listed all my qualifications, nor do I feel the need to. I'm not interested is p*ssing contests about who has higher qualifications, so the "prats" and keyboard warriors I am not concerned about. But again,I see where you are coming from mate, I figured honesty is the best policy.

I've noticed quite a few folk on here are oretty prickly and defensive though I'mnot quite sure what makes a"proper" electrician, but so far being grumpy and grumbling that no one else knows what they are talking about seems to be a major part of it I jest, of course. Again, a sincere thanks for the time you guys have taken to say hello, and thank you tichard and sparksburnout for taking the time to offer some good sage advice!

 

[davesparks]

, 14 years of messing about with 20kV klystron tubes, huge valve based HF transmitters, sending a few kv to the seabed and arcing a few thousand joules in the sea to create plasma balls for various purposes is good experience for working with 230v and 400v ac. I learned a lot working on ships especially, believe me maritime and MCA regs are a good deal tighter than domestic in some respects, so good working practice is well ingrained. I appreciate and understand the concerns

I would say that it is not good experience for working in this field, it is good experience for working in that field.
How much of the experience and skills required to work with all of those things are transferable?
Obviously the safety procedures are much higher at the higher voltages that you have been working with, and electrical science remains the same whatever you do and nobody can refute that.
But what practical skills and experience from doing that are relevant to working in houses etc?

 

[fall-apart-dave]

I would say that it is not good experience for working in this field, it is good experience for working in that field.
How much of the experience and skills required to work with all of those things are transferable?
Obviously the safety procedures are much higher at the higher voltages that you have been working with, and electrical science remains the same whatever you do and nobody can refute that.
But what practical skills and experience from doing that are relevant to working in houses etc?

Oohh this feels like an interview

Transferable skills... more than you'd think. Think of a ship as industrial setting. Each job for a client on our ship would require a fresh mobilisation, installing new kit, new cables etc, think a whole factory needing installation each time we changed clients. Then ripping it all out at the end of each job. Repeat 6-12 times a year, for 7 years, and the rest of the time is maintenance and fault finding.

 

[YoungBart]

I think the issue with qualifications and to an extent the transferable skills is more to do with the practical and logistical side of being a Domestic or commercial electrician, i.e coming to a ceiling rose and finding more cables there than there should be and then knowing how to rectify it or what each cable could do. If you had a half decent apprenticeship then You'd perhaps already have a basic idea. Whereas with just classroom Based knowledge you may be left scratching your head.
It may be worth trying to get some work with a local sparkor through an agency as an improver so you find out more about the work beforejust jumping in with your own business.

Whichever route you chose I wish you the best of luck.

 

[fall-apart-dave]

I think the issue with qualifications and to an extent the transferable skills is more to do with the practical and logistical side of being a Domestic or commercial electrician, i.e coming to a ceiling rose and finding more cables there than there should be and then knowing how to rectify it or what each cable could do. If you had a half decent apprenticeship then You'd perhaps already have a basic idea. Whereas with just classroom Based knowledge you may be left scratching your head.
It may be worth trying to get some work with a local sparkor through an agency as an improver so you find out more about the work beforejust jumping in with your own business.

Whichever route you chose I wish you the best of luck.

I do hold an apprenticeship, albeit one that was more industrial and electronics focused. With practical experience behind that, I'm not so worried about finding extra cables in a ceiling rose, it's not really any different to any other electrical gead scratcher, not too long ago I found myself opening a distribution board and finding a rats nest of cables and your 230v is actually 1kv with a floating earth and wondering if it was deliberate or not. I mean, regardless with extra cables you're gonna have to chase them, mark them and make some sense of it. A lack of house bashing experience does not mean I cannot apply what I do have in terms if experience to a new situation.

 

[marc8]

I think your do just fine, 80% of the work these days is probably builders type work anyway "drilling holes, chasing walls, install a back box level can't see what part this plays as electrical work, real work electrical 20% electrical actually running it & making the connection & testing it, You will **** it just from your comments.
as once explained to me house bashing is the lowest of the low & i am very happy doing it.

good luck

 

[fall-apart-dave]

Cheers dude

 

[HandySparks]

Welcome to the forums.

I have found that having your own website is a pretty cost-effective tool for generating business. Five years ago, not so much, but definitely now.

You can either write your own if you have the time and inclination, or pay someone to do it. It doesn't have to be fancy to work; just needs to have a good selection of keywords on the home page so that anyone searching for an 'electrician in Northumberland', or wherever, can find you.

Also get yourself on the various free listings available. Costs nothing and can bring in work. e.g. Yell.com, Google My Business (used to be Google Places), etc.

 

[NDG Elecs]

Good luck to you. Just reading your posts you obviously have a brain! You will likely find some aspects of domestic work confusing at first and will probably take a while to get up to speed. Get some hands on experience I would suggest.

Megger MFTs are generally decent; I have one myself. Advertising, as others have said, would be best as a simple advert in local mags etc. I don't advertise anymore this way, but when I did I found a simple advert got a lot more responses than a bigger flashier advert.

With your background is there not other electrical areas you could get into? The North East still has some maritime industries. For instance, one of my local clients works for a company that runs fibre optics across sea beds and such like.

Edit: just found email with the clients business details. The company I mention is: About SMD

I just think after doing what you have done for numerous years you may find domestic work tiresome a touch.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Not sure if a comms tech would be best suited in becoming a domestic electrician?
A lot of work out there with Sky, BT and Virgin.
Also a lot of work installing and Commisioning data and network cables in commercial buildings, not to mention Building Management Systems.
However, if you managed to navigate successfully AP Regulations and JPA forms, you shouldn't have any trouble with BS7671 and certification.

 

[Hellmooth]

I would say that it is not good experience for working in this field, it is good experience for working in that field.
How much of the experience and skills required to work with all of those things are transferable?
Obviously the safety procedures are much higher at the higher voltages that you have been working with, and electrical science remains the same whatever you do and nobody can refute that.
But what practical skills and experience from doing that are relevant to working in houses etc?

Has anyone ever just told you to shut up lol..........seriously you grate away at times, it's not rocket science for someone with half a brain, I'd say the skills he's learned will more than be enough to learn the domestic sector quickly and safely, you make out you need to have done a 10 year university degree to be an electrician! Not taking anything away from time served sparks, I'm glad it's the route I went down but the work doesn't exactly require a Mensa IQ!

 

[davesparks]

Has anyone ever just told you to shut up lol..........seriously you grate away at times, it's not rocket science for someone with half a brain, I'd say the skills he's learned will more than be enough to learn the domestic sector quickly and safely, you make out you need to have done a 10 year university degree to be an electrician! Not taking anything away from time served sparks, I'm glad it's the route I went down but the work doesn't exactly require a Mensa IQ!

Yes, to be able to learn/pick up the trade pretty quickly but not to just go into it with just a Mickey Mouse college course.

No it's not rocket science, but it's also not possible to gain the required experience without working with someone who has the knowledge to pass on.
I've never suggested that anything more than an apprenticeship is required to learn the trade,

 

[fall-apart-dave]

Handysparks - some good tips there! Thank you very much.

Good luck to you. Just reading your posts you obviously have a brain! You will likely find some aspects of domestic work confusing at first and will probably take a while to get up to speed. Get some hands on experience I would suggest.

Megger MFTs are generally decent; I have one myself. Advertising, as others have said, would be best as a simple advert in local mags etc. I don't advertise anymore this way, but when I did I found a simple advert got a lot more responses than a bigger flashier advert.

With your background is there not other electrical areas you could get into? The North East still has some maritime industries. For instance, one of my local clients works for a company that runs fibre optics across sea beds and such like.

Edit: just found email with the clients business details. The company I mention is: About SMD

I just think after doing what you have done for numerous years you may find domestic work tiresome a touch.

The offshore game is dead in the water. 2 years of successive pay cuts (big ones at that), greater expectations of time away (11 weeks at sea, less than 2 off before being bounced out again for another 8 etc was not uncommon, the work has gone very adhoc) and very short notice call ups, companies making redundancies all over the shop... I used to have a fantastic work life balance but not now. My key motivation for giving it up was my kids, I just wasn't seeing them enough and would rather earn half what I did doing simpler stuff to be able to spend more time with them.
I know SMD,have a friend who work for them, they are just as dry just now. I see what you are saying though.

Hands on experience I shall be gaining, I have two full rewires to do for family, and where I am actually aiming to go with my business will bexome aparent soon enough

 

[fall-apart-dave]

Not sure if a comms tech would be best suited in becoming a domestic electrician?
A lot of work out there with Sky, BT and Virgin.
Also a lot of work installing and Commisioning data and network cables in commercial buildings, not to mention Building Management Systems.
However, if you managed to navigate successfully AP Regulations and JPA forms, you shouldn't have any trouble with BS7671 and certification.

Yeah again I get ya, but that was before I went offshore. You'd think being a comms tech would be useless when doing geophysics and geotechnical work, messing on with 3000psi compressors, hydraulics, driving cranes and tuning sonars and the like but there are some overlaps and the rest I just learned. Ended up with my own team of engineers in the end which was good, I had some real talented fellas from all walks of life working with me. My RAF days were spent on the legacy kit, cossors and the like, so again not much on the data side but lots on the electrical valve stuff, lots of component level work etc.