Discuss lack of 30ma rcd protection in the Commercial Electrical Advice area at ElectriciansForums.net

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foghorn

hi under the 17th ammnendment 3 what code would be given to lack of 30ma rcd protection in a comercial installation 100ma rcd is present
 
im thinking c3 as no sockets available were unlikely for portable equipment to be taken outside
 
For an EICR it should be a minimum C3, you do not need to produce a risk assessment.
 
Look at regs and the notes to 411.3.3 it refers to SI no. which then takes you to HSE risk assessment. Its no ordinary risk assessment and leaves onerous responsibility on you. Hence give it a C2. What about cables in walls and ordinary or skilled persons with just a socket. The whole thrust is to get RCDs into the workplace/home.
 
411.3.3 Additional protection
In a.c. systems, additional protection by means of an RCD in accordance with Regulation 415.1 shall be provided for:

  1. (i) socket-outlets with a rated current not exceeding 20 A, and
  2. (ii) mobile equipment with a current rating not exceeding 32 A for use outdoors.
An exception to (i) is permitted:

  1. (a) where, other than for an installation in a dwelling, a documented risk assessment determines that the RCD protection is not necessary, or
  2. (b) for a specific labelled or otherwise suitably identified socket-outlet provided for connection of a particular item of equipment.
 
See Appendix 2, item 10 in respect of risk assessment.
10. The Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations 1999 (SI 1999 No 3242) require employers and self-employed persons to assess risks to workers and others who may be affected by their work or business. This is intended to enable them to identify measures they need to take to comply with the law. Guidance from the Health and Safety Executive INDG163 gives advice on these regulations.
 
surely a risk assessment would be needed if i was saying that An exception to 30 ma rcd is permitted which i would not be saying ony that code 3 recommend improvemnt
 
I am not being contentious, I would like to understand your reasoning behind that statement please. With any supporting evidence if poss?
I know you are not but the notes in BS7671 for producing an EICR make no mention of a risk assessment.
 
TBH I have recently completed about 300 pgs of EICR and we coded all buildings (4 in all, commercial offices) as C3 with a strongly worded caveat that all building would be part of PM to upgrade as the budget allowed. I suppose that if we say C2 we force the client to pay up for the improvement. If we say C3 we are suggesting that there is a significant improvement in safety if they upgrade. In principle I agree with @westward10 there is nothing to say we should do other than code it. If with a C3 we are saying the installation is satisfactory it rather flies in the face of 411.3.3 so being a belt and braces person I have (but not) considered producing a risk assessement to justify a C3 as you are giving licence to the client to not bother with upgrading. And of course as it says in the intro of BS7671 amd 3 it applies henceforth, not retrospectively.
 
valid point u have made there vortigern code 2 does kinda ring alarm bells to the client i think as long as its coded and commented in the comment section then covered i guess it depends on what risk the inspector feels at the time of the inspection
 
TBH I have recently completed about 300 pgs of EICR and we coded all buildings (4 in all, commercial offices) as C3 with a strongly worded caveat that all building would be part of PM to upgrade as the budget allowed. I suppose that if we say C2 we force the client to pay up for the improvement. If we say C3 we are suggesting that there is a significant improvement in safety if they upgrade. In principle I agree with @westward10 there is nothing to say we should do other than code it. If with a C3 we are saying the installation is satisfactory it rather flies in the face of 411.3.3 so being a belt and braces person I have (but not) considered producing a risk assessement to justify a C3 as you are giving licence to the client to not bother with upgrading. And of course as it says in the intro of BS7671 amd 3 it applies henceforth, not retrospectively.
I have never agreed that if there are no C1 or C2 entries it is deemed satisfactory, you could have 30 odd C3, but that is okay, not in my eyes which is why we have reworded our Reports to reflect this.
 

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