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RachelM

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Hi there,
I am a mature first time buyer looking for a property at the budget end. I have seen this property for sale and I would like to know whether it needs a full re-wire and whether this would need to be done straight away or could be left a few years. It has a Merlin Gerin unit. The plug sockets look modern. It is a grade II listed one bed cottage overdwelling. I'm getting quite experienced now at looking at properties but don't know much about electrics. I met the tenant and no problems reported. Any help much appreciated.
Kind regards,
Rachel


Mature first time buyer seeks advice - Full rewire needed? IMG_0878.JPG - EletriciansForums.net
Many thanks for your help,
Rachel

Mature first time buyer seeks advice - Full rewire needed? IMG_0877.JPG - EletriciansForums.net
 
Excellent points above that as a rented property there should already be an Electrical Installation Condition Report (EICR) as it recently became mandatory for all rented properties to have one carried out.
A word of caution though - quality of these varies hugely, but if you can obtain it and post it here with all personal details removed we can comment on it's findings.

Generally when buying a house the questions are
1) Have the original electrics been messed around with and extended and has this work been done competently
2) Is the wiring itself in good condition or has it deteriorated due to age
3) Will the fault-protection mechanisms operate to avoid the wiring catching fire under fault conditions.
4) Is it safe for continued use

It's really difficult to answer any of those from photo's alone. An EICR answers all of these as it should involve stress-testing the wiring and measuring it's condition, establishing beyond doubt it's safe, and discovering any creative additions by kitchen-fitters (*other muppets are available)

(What's that between the CU and the meter - is it an old VOELCB? The cut-out has a PME sticker now...)
 
(What's that between the CU and the meter - is it an old VOELCB? The cut-out has a PME sticker now...)

Yes. So the installation might have originally been TT (using its own rod for earthing), the supply was then reworked to TN-C-S (the electricity company provides the earth connection) but the installation wasn't updated since that time.

Even if it does not require a rewire, there would probably be a good case for upgrading the consumer unit.
 
(What's that between the CU and the meter - is it an old VOELCB? The cut-out has a PME sticker now...)
That is a Crabtree current operated earth leakage circuit breaker, usually rated 1amp tripping current. Inside the box is a standard Crabtree voltage operated earth leakage circuit breaker on the left with its tripping coil wired to the sense coil that is in the right side of the box. I have one here somewhere in the piles of junk. Quite a rare item. The differential transformer is quite pretty, the L and N coils are made of rectangular section solid copper conductors, quite a few turns compared to modern RCDs, IIRC.
 
Thanks @Lucien Nunes and @freddo , interesting, I'd not seen one quite like it before. Quite an interesting item! The fact it is still there and looks to be in service suggests that no serious wiring work has been done for some time as we'd normally remove that immediately upon discovering it.

I'd agree that the consumer unit would be worth upgrading as the present unit's primary purpose is protecting the wiring, but a modern one attempts to protect people too by detecting electricity going the wrong way. Rather like the vintage device is trying to do, but modern devices would detect considerably smaller samples of electricity going the wrong way!
In a grade II listed dwelling there are the fire-protection benefits from a modern consumer unit to consider too.
 
Good shout on the differential transformer. But my initial observation was that a green/yellow cable passes through the ELCB and there is an insulated MET separate to the CU. That is quite strongly suggestive of VOELCB to me.
 
Does look like it enters the enclosure! I assumed it was just tucked behind the tails. Perhaps it's been creatively wired.
 
For me, soon to be in a similar situation, its a question of not how good the electrics are now* but how they'll be in 5/10/20 years time.

If you've got plans for the place, intend to spend thousands doing it up and decorating, will you be in a good financial position to redo the work in 10 years time if the wiring gives up the ghost?

Some of that looks to be 40+ years, possibly older and it won't last forever.

Spending £2-3k now may be the best option.

Very much depends on your circumstances.

*Obviously if the electrics are knackered now it needs rewiring. Only a good quality EICR will give you the data you need to make an informed choice.
 
Others have covered the main points that you would be best to get an EICR done to have an assessment of the current condition of the installation before deciding what to do. If the owner has a previous one then posting it here (personal info redacted) for comments would be a start, but you would be best to get one done for the current status.

If, as it appears, the cable is all PVC and is not suffering from any particular damage (the green goo of very early 70s cable, over heating, bad DIY, rodents, etc) then usually it will go on for decades and the insulation testing of an EICR should verify it is basically OK. In such a case a new consumer unit and removing some of the now-redundant supply electrics would be a good move for added protection and easier spare parts in the future.

However, you should also be thinking about what you want to do with all of the rooms, and if the lights & sockets are where you need them and there are enough of them, etc. A 70s/80s installation is probably lacking in provisions by today's standards and it is far, far, better to do that before you start any decorating!

So even if the installation is safe and not really needing a total rewire, you might want to consider that if you don't feel everything is how you want it for the next 10-20 years, etc.
 
Just to add about EICRs.

Now they are a requirement for many properties there is an industry that focuses on offering "low cost" EICR but usually with a catch or two. Firstly they are rarely done with any degree of care or attention, as the person is on minimum time/pay for the job, and secondly often the company is offering it as a loss-leader in the hope or expectation of getting remedial work out of it. You can probably guess how that happens...

Also note that you do not have to go back to the person/company that did the EICR for any remedial work, in fact, it is best to make that clear up front in some cases! Obviously if they are good and trustworthy then it is simpler to do it though.

If you can post the approximate location of the property (nearest town or general postcode) then someone on this forum might offer you the service at a realistic price for a few hours of skilled time.

While the latest edition of the wiring regulations is the basis for any assessment, it is not necessary for the installation to comply in every way to be considered safe. It is to some degree a judgment call on the sparky doing it to code any issues according to how they actually present a risk. If you are interested then the Best Practice Guide #4 can be downloaded for free and covers various examples of common problems and suggested risk categories (C1=very bad, immediate danger, C2=potentially dangerous, typically single fault away from serious danger, and C3=improvement recommended):

Note that some of the guidance elsewhere differs (e.g. certain point in the NICEIC guidance to members), which is bizarre really as they are also authors on this document!
 
If you can post the approximate location of the property (nearest town or general postcode) then someone on this forum might offer you the service at a realistic price for a few hours of skilled time.
The OP's profile says Todmorden, Lancashire so I assume it's close to that location
 

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