New member having lighting problems

[Mac69]

Hi everyone
Forgive me if I don't explain this correctly but I am not experienced with electrics and will be getting an electrician round but this is confusing me .
I have halogen spotlights in my landing and stairway ceiling and they've been there for years. However I have had the lot stripped and plastered and want to upgrade to LED spots.
Not sure whether they are on a transformer or 240v and have had a electrician to do some other work and asked him if I could find out without any other way as I've been up in loft and there's loads of insulation on top of all the wiring and cannot find a transformer myself ( not saying there isn't 1 somewhere though ).
As he cannot get round at the moment he said to buy a volt pen from Screwfix with a high capacity from 100 plus and see how it goes. If it lights up / buzzers its confirming its 240v and not 12v ( I think ).
Anyway I have 4 spots in landing ceiling and 2 on stairs but only bulbs in the stairs at moment and switched the lights on and tried and got nothing from the 2 on the stairs and only 2 on the landing buzzed. Then for some reason I took all the bulbs out and every 1 of the 6 lamp holders lite up and buzzed so that tells me it's mains 240v running through .
But why would I get nothing when the halogen bulb is in but it registers when they are out ?
Tried this several times just to make sure . Seem strange to me but as I say I am not an expert by any means .
Thanks

 

[Taylortwocities]

Ignore this advice It is cr@p. Light pens are the most unreliable method of measuring voltage.

As he cannot get round at the moment he said to buy a volt pen from Screwfix with a high capacity from 100 plus and see how it goes.

Light pens can lie to you, pick up stray induced voltages and will bleep if you rub them on your negligee

Take out one of the lamps, look at the lamp, it will tell you what voltage they are! It is written on it.

If they are 12v halogen bulbs, then there will be a transformer, or transformers somewhere.
It is unlikely that the old transformers are compatible with LED lamps. You would need specific LED drivers or (better) use 230v LED lamps, then you do not need transformers or drivers.

 

[SparkyChick]

Beaten to it

What he said ^^^^

 

[Octopus]

It's difficult to believe the advice on post 1 was given by a spark

 

[shaun1]

(If you cant read the writing then bulbs with larger pins that twist slightly to come out are 230v, thin pins that pull straigh out are 12v - post pics if unsure)

 

[Mac69]

The bulbs are spikes gu5.3 , that's not the problem . It's the fact that I don't know if there's transformers in the loft and so if I use the 230v LED bulbs as the above gentlemen said would this still work if the lots connected to a transformer ? Or am I getting this wrong as they did say I could do it this way without need for a transformer ?
Cheers

 

[Mac69]

The bulbs do say 12 v halogen

 

[Darkwood]

There is a TX somewhere, if it is recess then usually you can pull the TX out through the hole when old fitting is removed, if you wish to convert to 230v then you will need to remove the TX and wire direct, taking safe isolation practices into mind before attempting to do so.
12v-

230v-

 

[Taylortwocities]

It's the fact that I don't know if there's transformers in the loft

You Lamps are 12v. There will be a, or more than one, transformer. All you have to do is find it/ them.
Have you removed a lamp and pulled the connecting cable. Sometimes the tranny is on the end!

if I use the 230v LED bulbs as the above gentlemen said would this still work if the lots connected to a transformer

It won’t work. 230volts lamps don’t work on 12volts. How could they?
You need to re-cable the shooting match, or bypass the elusive transformers.

 

[Mac69]

Ok thanks everyone I get it now. No that's the problem I haven't been able to locate them and there's definitely none actually with the lamp holders so will have to reinvestigate up the loft.
Haven't a clue where the 2 that's in the stair ceiling will be though.

 

[Mac69]

Just one more question please. If I cannot locate the transformers or it seems too much of a job to change to 240v , could I just change the bulbs to the MR16 or is it more energy saving in the long run to have it changed to the GU10s ?
Thanks Guys

 

[Taylortwocities]

Haven't a clue where the 2 that's in the stair ceiling will be though.

It might have been better to have sorted all this before:

I have had the lot stripped and plastered

You can change the existing lamps for the same type. You'll need to changethe transformers if you switch to LED

 

[Mac69]

Yes I know this now lol. I've had one thing after another last year and this was supposed to be a simple job that turned into a nightmare to be honest so didn't really think about the lights until someone said its cost a fortune to run halogen rather than LED.
MR16s have the same ( spike ) fittings but I would still need to sort out transformers then I presume ?

 

[Taylortwocities]

The MR bit actually stands for multi-faceted reflector and the 16 means 16 eighths of an inch or 2 inches (5 centimeters) in diameter at its largest circumference, hence the name "MR16." You can also get MR8 and MR11 lamps,
The spike base is actually GU5.3. This is the distance between the pins in mm.

Note that NOTHING in the description MR16 mentions the VOLTAGE!

Commonly, though MR16 halogen lamps are 12v. Again, what do yours say????

I will repeat.
IF they are 12v there is something is converting from 230V to 12v. Whatever that is will be made for the lamps you have. New ones (LED for example) take a different approach. So changes of converter or re-wiring will be needed.

 

[Octopus]

May be replace the light completely............

 

[Andy-1960]

Call me an old sceptic, but I can’t help wondering if the OP’s electrician is also his imaginary friend!

 

[pirate]

There's loads of insulation on top of the wiring?
You may want to consider that too...

 

[Toneyz]

There's loads of insulation on top of the wiring?
You may want to consider that too...

And over the light fittings.