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isk57

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I've been working in Birmingham for a couple of weeks and I am coming across a single neutral cable from the cu to each light point then the line is also a single cable with a earth to each switch then to the lights it must be from the 60s .It does seem to be the norm .

My problem is that other engineers are doing db changes and test cert a eic , in my eyes this is unsatisfactory the neutral has no earth so if it was cut it wouldn't trip the rcd and you would get a nice belt , any suggestions to my thoughts
 
And where would then current go after it flows through the person that cut the cable?

1. Nowhere
2. Back into the other side of the cut Neutral
3. To earth
 
Thanks for your advice I did look in the regs but couldn't see anything . You do have a good zs at lights but Your thoughts on rcd not tripping when the neutral being cut
 
I've been working in Birmingham for a couple of weeks and I am coming across a single neutral cable from the cu to each light point then the line is also a single cable with a earth to each switch then to the lights it must be from the 60s .It does seem to be the norm .

My problem is that other engineers are doing db changes and test cert a eic , in my eyes this is unsatisfactory the neutral has no earth so if it was cut it wouldn't trip the rcd and you would get a nice belt , any suggestions to my thoughts
So you have single insulated cables with PVC Mech protection, the red of these cables has a cpc no problem then is there? The earth is provided in the red core f the circuit, done loads of installs that way in the 60s it was the norm on house bashing installs.
Red plus cpc (live) to switches SL plus cpc as sl from light to switch, N black no cpc to all lights, 2 ways etc in twin and earth
 
Last edited:
Hmmmm?
Seeing as a Neutral is classified as a 'Live' conductor ...
What if there is a break of infinite resistance in said Neutral between Load and Origin?
 
If a new CU is being done (post #1) and EIC done, then there's no place to code C3 (post #2) (?) ... And then reading Reg 543.6.1 "the protective conductor shall be incorporated in the same wiring system as the live conductors or be in their immediate proximity". I wouldn't be happy that spiderweb of L, N, sL and E across a ceiling space fits this reg, perhaps am I wrong?
 
If a new CU is being done (post #1) and EIC done, then there's no place to code C3 (post #2) (?) ... And then reading Reg 543.6.1 "the protective conductor shall be incorporated in the same wiring system as the live conductors or be in their immediate proximity". I wouldn't be happy that spiderweb of L, N, sL and E across a ceiling space fits this reg, perhaps am I wrong?
It did in the 60s
 
If a new CU is being done (post #1) and EIC done, then there's no place to code C3 (post #2) (?) ... And then reading Reg 543.6.1 "the protective conductor shall be incorporated in the same wiring system as the live conductors or be in their immediate proximity". I wouldn't be happy that spiderweb of L, N, sL and E across a ceiling space fits this reg, perhaps am I wrong?
I would suggest it's the same wiring system although not the same cable. Otherwise there would be no purpose to PVC/PVC singles.
 
Can't see a problem with it myself , you could have have a break in a neutral conducter in a twin and earth , granted is less likely in a twin and earth to just cut the neutral but it could happen , but as wilko says there is a reg to say the cpc must be run with live conducters. So I would put a comment on the eic in the "comments on existing installation" section , stating than neutral cables for lighting do not have a cpc running with them
 
Can't see a problem with it myself , you could have have a break in a neutral conducter in a twin and earth , granted it is less likely in a twin and earth to just cut the neutral but it could happen , but as wilko says there is a reg to say the cpc must be run with live conducters. So I would put a comment on the eic in the "comments on existing installation" section , stating than neutral cables for lighting do not have a cpc running with them.

Edit
Just seen Risteard post , so maybe no commment at all.
 
I would suggest it's the same wiring system although not the same cable. Otherwise there would be no purpose to PVC/PVC singles.
My thought was they could be used in plastic trunking or cable ladder or basket. To me, that grouping satisfies the "immediate proximity" bit.
 
It says 'incorporated into the same wiring system' - so
no code needed. Nothing wrong with it. Tin hat on (without neutral).
 

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