Scheme providers cash cow vs must have.

[baldsparkies]

Often wonder what many electricians commercial or domestic really think of being a member of one of the scheme providers.
Are they really there to help provide a valuable service to practicing electricians ?
Or are they just a pain in the backside that are always trying to find new ways to relief you of your hard earned cash ?
If it wasn't for domestic notification of works under part P being cheaper under one of the schemes.
I cant see when they have been anything but the latter to be honest.
But opinions on the subject would be interesting.

 

[telectrix]

agree. i place them just 1 step above rated people and the other parasites.

 

[Marvo]

From the general comments I've seen I think most people agree with you Tel. It seems like the majority of sparkies only belong to one for cheaper notifying of work.

 

[baldsparkies]

Of course the biggest baddest of this mob, you know the one !! (they have a geriatric has there man of the moment)
Often pride themselves on there free to members technical helpline.
Free that is until you get yer phone bill and see what that premium rate number as cost you :censored:

 

[telectrix]

i had a bust-up with LABC. they will accept a cert from me on any new build, work on an extension, etc., no problem. but if it's purely electrical ( notifiable) work, they won't accept if i'm not in a scam. so i then said. fine, i'll not bother to notify. sue me. that was the last i heard from them. 4 years ago.

 

[NDG Elecs]

I would be happy with the schemes if they did what they should. That is ensure only properly trained sparks can join and not let any Tom Dick and Harry join. Also the dilution of notifiable works a couple of years ago does not help. If anything it should have got stricter. The schemes should bang their heads together and also push for a change in legislation to prevent non electricians buying certain electrical gear. As it stands I am often easily undercut by non registered 'sparks' who don't have insurance, test gear, regs books or a decent understanding of electrics. I sleep well though.

 

[Risteard]

Often wonder what many electricians commercial or domestic really think of being a member of one of the scheme providers.
Are they really there to help provide a valuable service to practicing electricians ?
Or are they just a pain in the backside that are always trying to find new ways to relief you of your hard earned cash ?
If it wasn't for domestic notification of works under part P being cheaper under one of the schemes.
I cant see when they have been anything but the latter to be honest.
But opinions on the subject would be interesting.

Often people might need to be members of one of them as a client prerequisite.

 

[baldsparkies]

Often people might need to be members of one of them as a client prerequisite.

Not as often as they would like us to believe me thinks.

The prerequisite is more about confidence in your ability, and equally yer price to do the job.

Rarely as a scheme providers name made any real difference in my own experience.

 

[Risteard]

Not as often as they would like us to believe me thinks.

The prerequisite is more about confidence in your ability, and equally yer price to do the job.

Rarely as a scheme providers name made any real difference in my own experience.

In many public or non-domestic jobs a client may well require you to be a member of a particular body. It's really not that uncommon.

 

[shanky887614]

In many public or non-domestic jobs a client may well require you to be a member of a particular body. It's really not that uncommon.

not really, the company i work for have worked on certain large sites for that long that they dont care if we are registered at all but then the firm has been working there on and off for kver 20 years

 

[Risteard]

not really, the company i work for have worked on certain large sites for that long that they dont care if we are registered at all but then the firm has been working there on and off for kver 20 years

Well I honestly don't think that would be accepted here. I know many (if not all) of the public bodies insist upon NICEIC membership.

 

[GB.Kayak]

Well I honestly don't think that would be accepted here. I know many (if not all) of the public bodies insist upon NICEIC membership.

It sounds like 'closed shop' working practices to me ... a single, private and profit making company being the only organisation whose certification is accepted by a public body ... I understand why it happens but to my mind it is a monopoly!

 

[telectrix]

and monopoly money in brown envelopes passed under the table with a funny handshake.

 

[GB.Kayak]

and monopoly money in brown envelopes passed under the table with a funny handshake.

... I didn't think they admitted women to their ranks ...

 

[baldsparkies]

With commercial work, I have found that more and more facilities managers are wising up and now have more interest in seeing a JIB card from the operatives actually doing the job as opposed to membership of the company they work for with regards to NIC or the like.
No doubt they have seen examples of young apprentices being let loose on there installations.
And under the umbrella of the scheme provider vs company the apprentice works for.
Who do we have spare ?? Little Joe he's a bright lad give him a van today and send him up.
Oh dear, did I just turn all the IT servers off ?? whoop's.
Trust me !! It happens.

 

[Andy78]

and monopoly money in brown envelopes passed under the table with a funny handshake.

I had a funny handshake under a table once. Well, I say handshake, but......... ah she was a lovely lass.

 

[malcolmsanford]

With commercial work, I have found that more and more facilities managers are wising up and now have more interest in seeing a JIB card from the operatives actually doing the job as opposed to membership of the company they work for with regards to NIC or the like.
No doubt they have seen examples of young apprentices being let loose on there installations.
And under the umbrella of the scheme provider vs company the apprentice works for.
Who do we have spare ?? Little Joe he's a bright lad give him a van today and send him up.
Oh dear, did I just turn all the IT servers off ?? whoop's.
Trust me !! It happens.

I know that on here we often have a go at the JIB and in some cases it is merited. But what Baldsparkies wrote is really quite comforting.

As long as I have been in the industry the JIB have been around. They have their faults and are not perfect, and I have had a few run ins with them, but they are the only real yardstick to qualifications and standards within our industry. If you haven't got the right Quals then you don't get the relevant grade.

I know guys come on here advocating I've been doing this for 30 yrs and can only get a labourers card, it is a disgrace, well yes and no. Unfortunately today you need to prove competency and a proof of that is qualification, proper ones.

I'd like to see the JIB become more stringent and have more power, there needs to be something in the UK that is pretending to uphold standards, god knows the cash cows aren't.

I was glad that there still isn't this much muted "Domestic Installer" grade added to the grading system. As I said they are not perfect but they are at least still here

 

[baldsparkies]

Regarding JIB, and a common sense approach to qualifications I will say this.
I have a gold approved electrician and Platinum Electrical Site Managers card.
At 62 you will appreciate that when I did my C&G 236 parts A,B and C technicians.
NVQ simply did not exist.
Now my application for a JIB card, which included copies of the above my Apprenticeship Indentures, C&G 2391 inspection and testing and 17th edition.
They provided me with a nice red electrical improvers card !! not what I expected.
It took a phone call to JIB explaining age, experience, and lets face it my qualifications and dates including time served apprenticeship were all there along with a letter to there customer service team.
6 weeks later after my letter went before an assessment board, common sense prevailed and I was granted a gold approved card.
Running small to medium sized contracts got me the Site managers card under industry assessed and 2391 quals.
Probably ties in with Grandfather rights, but for those older guys in my situation my point is the JIB do have a system whereby common sense will kick in provided you take your case far enough up the chain.
Now when it comes to scheme providers and common sense !! forget it.
££££££££££ over rules common sense with these guys every time.
Example, re NICEIC.
Your a qualified electrician, you have the C&G 2391 in inspection and testing, you have public liability insurance, you have all the test equipment required for testing, and the calibration procedures and records in place.
An assesor asseses your ability to conduct a full electrical test.
Then as a domestic installer, you can purchase there Electrical Installation Certificates.
But try purchasing Domestic EICR's (Not a cat in hells chance)
And the reason !! Well it's nothing to do with experience or qualifications,
You simply need to be in there approved scheme, they even push hard for you to do so.
They EVEN say to achieve approved status you can submit domestic only work these days.
But above all ££££££££££s and with a smile welcome, you have joined the club.
Rant over.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Regarding JIB, and a common sense approach to qualifications I will say this.
I have a gold approved electrician and Platinum Electrical Site Managers card.
At 62 you will appreciate that when I did my C&G 236 parts A,B and C technicians.
NVQ simply did not exist.
Now my application for a JIB card, which included copies of the above my Apprenticeship Indentures, C&G 2391 inspection and testing and 17th edition.
They provided me with a nice red electrical improvers card !! not what I expected.
It took a phone call to JIB explaining age, experience, and lets face it my qualifications and dates including time served apprenticeship were all there along with a letter to there customer service team.
6 weeks later after my letter went before an assessment board, common sense prevailed and I was granted a gold approved card.
Running small to medium sized contracts got me the Site managers card under industry assessed and 2391 quals.
Probably ties in with Grandfather rights, but for those older guys in my situation my point is the JIB do have a system whereby common sense will kick in provided you take your case far enough up the chain.
Now when it comes to scheme providers and common sense !! forget it.
££££££££££ over rules common sense with these guys every time.
Example, re NICEIC.
Your a qualified electrician, you have the C&G 2391 in inspection and testing, you have public liability insurance, you have all the test equipment required for testing, and the calibration procedures and records in place.
An assesor asseses your ability to conduct a full electrical test.
Then as a domestic installer, you can purchase there Electrical Installation Certificates.
But try purchasing Domestic EICR's (Not a cat in hells chance)
And the reason !! Well it's nothing to do with experience or qualifications,
You simply need to be in there approved scheme, they even push hard for you to do so.
They EVEN say to achieve approved status you can submit domestic only work these days.
But above all ££££££££££s and with a smile welcome, you have joined the club.
Rant over.

Read that with a tear in the eyes. That was when you became a real sparks :yes:

 

[richy3333]

The industry need a massive shake up. No more short courses. No more multiple registration bodies and no more optional membership. It will never happen though as the industry 'self regulates'. If the government EVER want to see changes in the industry they'll ask the scheme providers for their opinions. Those same scheme providers will never suggest getting rid of themselves! It's like ask the Tories/Labour for proportional representation!

The Scottish governments new rules on rental properties is helping though. Whilst it doesn't take effect until December I undertook an EICR last week and stopped at 93 code 2's and 3's. Customer even said that he appreciated it was a bad move to have the Dangerous Daves and the Roger The Bodger's do his electrical work!