Should this fitting be bonded to earth

[P1wack]

Data sheet says Earth is required. Sticker says class 2. Wasn’t clear if the sticker was referring to the gear tray. Now we know.

Surely any competent spark would just earth the back plate! (And install correctly)

 

[P1wack]

Look at anything else designed as class II or double insulated, and you’ll see the terminals are enclosed within a plastic box, and restrained.

It’s basically what the square within a square symbol signifies.

if a core comes out of the terminal, it can only touch plastic…. Even if the body of the fitting is metal.


Admittedly, some of the little plastic boxes that come supplied with certain decorative fittings leave a lot to be desired…. But the thought was there.


How does kingfisher customer service, who sent the email, explain the data sheet? They are contradictory.

See response. Manufacturer is a ---- show

 

[freddo]

I really don't like the single insulating coming into the fitting, through a bare metal hole, on an un-earthed metal enclosure. Are there connector blocks behind the fitting or something to join the flex to the building wiring?

 

[P1wack]

I really don't like the single insulating coming into the fitting, through a bare metal hole, on an un-earthed metal enclosure. Are there connector blocks behind the fitting or something to join the flex to the building wiring?

The single cores are where the cable was pinched. It’s now been rectified. But no the fittings massive metal body doesn’t need to be earthed. Because it’s a class 2 fitting. I would earth it anyway regardless of what the manufacture said

 

[JM1TTY]

100% should be bonded. Next to the earth symbol there is a small elevated hole which should either have came with a screw to screw into this or if it didn't he should have used a self tapper in this and a crimp on the earth is what i would have done. Also whys the light fitting got a level build into it if its a circle? which also isn't level Does it have a decretive faceplate that should be level?

 

[westward10]

100% should be bonded. Next to the earth symbol there is a small elevated hole which should either have came with a screw to screw into this or if it didn't he should have used a self tapper in this crimp on the earth is what i would have done. Also whys the light fitting got a level build into it if its a circle? which also isn't level Does it have a decretive faceplate that should be level?

It is an "eyelid" diffuser so it needs to be level.

 

[P1wack]

100% should be bonded. Next to the earth symbol there is a small elevated hole which should either have came with a screw to screw into this or if it didn't he should have used a self tapper in this and a crimp on the earth is what i would have done. Also whys the light fitting got a level build into it if it’s a circle? which also isn't level Does it have a decretive faceplate that should be level?

Kingfisher said they can’t supply a screw the. It wouldn’t be classed as a class 2 product. An M4 fits and is being used going forward

 

[JM1TTY]

Kingfisher said they can’t supply a screw the. It wouldn’t be classed as a class 2 product. An M4 fits and is being used going forward

Thats good im surprised the electrician didn't attempt to bond it himself though it's ridiculous. That's the problem with lights from IKEA these days etc they give you a light fitting that doesn't require an earth cause they class it as a certain class then give you the smallest connector block in the world with a rubber shroud round the cables going to the fixture. If you've got more than one cable at your light which also is higher than 1mm to make it even worse a light that should take 5 minutes turns into 45 minutes.

 

[plugsandsparks]

I am trying to understand the manufacturers position. They must know electricians dont really want to run a supply to a lamp without an earth as this will cause issues down the line. So an earth needs to go somewhere. The electrician used a wago and TBH it is one way of doing it, so as to satisfy the requirement to have an earth available should the fitting be replaced with a class 1. I personally don't see what issue would arise if the earth post is used. In some ways its a lucky find because most class 2 light fitting dont have a recognisable method to deal with the earth supply cable, hence they either end up in a blind choc block or a wago.

 

[P1wack]

Thats good im surprised the electrician didn't attempt to bond it himself though it's ridiculous. That's the problem with lights from IKEA these days etc they give you a light fitting that doesn't require an earth cause they class it as a certain class then give you the smallest connector block in the world with a rubber shroud round the cables going to the fixture. If you've got more than one cable at your light which also is higher than 1mm to make it even worse a light that should take 5 minutes turns into 45 minutes.

I am trying to understand the manufacturers position. They must know electricians dont really want to run a supply to a lamp without an earth as this will cause issues down the line. So an earth needs to go somewhere. The electrician used a wago and TBH it is one way of doing it, so as to satisfy the requirement to have an earth available should the fitting be replaced with a class 1. I personally don't see what issue would arise if the earth post is used. In some ways it’s a lucky find because most class 2 light fitting dont have a recognisable method to deal with the earth supply cable, hence they either end up in a blind choc block or a wago.

Might as well put it on the body right? The provided post. Just to be safe! No brainer

 

[westward10]

I am trying to understand the manufacturers position. They must know electricians dont really want to run a supply to a lamp without an earth as this will cause issues down the line. So an earth needs to go somewhere. The electrician used a wago and TBH it is one way of doing it, so as to satisfy the requirement to have an earth available should the fitting be replaced with a class 1. I personally don't see what issue would arise if the earth post is used. In some ways its a lucky find because most class 2 light fitting dont have a recognisable method to deal with the earth supply cable, hence they either end up in a blind choc block or a wago.

I agree but it is a leap of faith to think that is a Class II fitting, the earth terminal sort of gives it away.

 

[plugsandsparks]

I dont know, we have the manufacturer saying its a Class 2 fitting, we have a label stuck to the base showing a class 2 fitting, i have not seen the driver but that too is "likely" to show a class 2 device, it may even say class 2 on the box the lamp came in. The only evidence it may be a class 1 is a post and a casting impression of an earth symbol. My head is saying is "probably" a class 2. So i can understand the original electricians position, thats all i am saying, the rest of the install is not fit for purpose for sure.

 

[JM1TTY]

I dont know, we have the manufacturer saying its a Class 2 fitting, we have a label stuck to the base showing a class 2 fitting, i have not seen the driver but that too is "likely" to show a class 2 device, it may even say class 2 on the box the lamp came in. The only evidence it may be a class 1 is a post and a casting impression of an earth symbol. My head is saying is "probably" a class 2. So i can understand the original electricians position, thats all i am saying, the rest of the install is not fit for purpose for sure.

Either way taking everything into account the spark fitting it should have seen a metal enclosure, fitted a grommet and also attempted to attach the earth to the enclosure to ensure bonding to cover himself and others. Im actually surprised hes used washers on his fixings he clearly thought about his install to some degree..

 

[baldelectrician]

I have asked the contractor to come back, remove the fittings. Big circle seal of mastic behind cable entry, refit and connect the earth to the provided terminal. He is refusing. I have to warranty a large number of these for 2 years, with no manufacture warranty. In 1 month 3no have failed and as a minimum I would like to reduce the chance of failure. In the process I’d like them earthed. This is in a kids school. Care takers/maintance engineers and cleaners could potentially touch or inspect failures. I don’t want these to be a reflection of our workmanship or keep paying to rectify. And obviously don’t want anyone to get a belt.

I’ve paid them for the work but still owe a little for other jobs. I’ve only asked if I have it sorted (1man, 1 day max) and I’ll hold the risk and he covers the rectifying costs.

If he does come and do the mastic he is refusing to earth them. So I have kind of feel like I’m holding a too bigger risk.

I think they should be earthed. Even if installed correctly.

Who specified / supplied the lights?

The regs state you have to follow manufacturer instructions- and the light states class II

Kingfisher is part of B&Q / Screwfix - did someone look at Screwfix and think they were a good idea?

 

[nicebutdim]

Kingfisher group own screwfix and b&q.

I don't think kingfisher lighting are in any way associated.

 

[littlespark]

The only evidence it may be a class 1 is a post and a casting impression of an earth symbol.

And the data sheet from the manufacturer that contradicts their own MI.


If the spark sat down and had a think, he would realise what needs done. Seems to just want to argue…. But on the other hand, does he get paid for a return visit to put it right?

 

[DPG]

The whole light assembly is not class II. The manufacturer has got confused because they have used a class II driver module, but then fitted it into a non class II metal fitting.

Note that equipment with metal enclosures can still be class II, but they need to comply with the requirements for double insulation (or 'reinforced' insulation in lieue of this). The fitting the OP has does not comply with either.

I've seen this with a lot of fittings over recent years, mainly cheapo brand ones but not always.

There is sometimes no way you can fit it and comply with class II requirements AND manufacturer's instructions. I personally would earth the fitting using the stud as other people have already mentioned.

 

[plugsandsparks]

The manufacturer has stuck a label on the baseplate, its clear to see. I don't know what instructions came with the fitting or what was written on the outside of the box it came in. Regardless of the stud, i would have considered it a class 2 fitting. Yes, i know i have said i would have used the stud anyway but that would not have been my major concern about earthing just somewhere to put the earth cable for later use of a class 1 fitting. I would not be, on-site, with the fitting in my hand considering ringing Kingfisher, downloading their datasheets and generally having a debate about it. I am thinking of the OP here and the decision by the electrician to connect it the way he has , which, if it had been my own property, i would not be getting excited at all. IP integrity is a totally different issue, and i would have said to the electrician "seriously ??" lol