Discuss supply to brick lights from mains electric gate? in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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Hi all I have only recently qualified and would appreciate some advice re wiring PIR brick lights and surface mounted PIR lights on two electric gate posts on either side of sliding gate. My question is can I break into the incoming 230V supply to the gate controller if I use a fcu for lights on each post? Each post will have its own dedicated fcu. I would have to connect the spur to the supply in the controller box as the supply cable is buried under the drive. The reason for 2 fcu's is that there is a second 230v cable at the other pillar (for the remote) which originates from the gate (motor) controller box. This would save me having to bury a cable under the drive. So in essence I would be tapping into the mains on either side of the gate. The gate supply has its own dedicated 2way CU box which is RCD protected. Thanks for your help.
 
Hi - you may find the gate is already on a 3A FCU, just saying. Is there anything that makes you think you can’t use the existing supply? ( it seems ok to me :) )
 
I agree with wilco, although gates often have a 13A supply, still wouldn't be a problem. What controls the lights?
 
Hi all I have only recently qualified and would appreciate some advice re wiring PIR brick lights and surface mounted PIR lights on two electric gate posts on either side of sliding gate. My question is can I break into the incoming 230V supply to the gate controller if I use a fcu for lights on each post? Each post will have its own dedicated fcu. I would have to connect the spur to the supply in the controller box as the supply cable is buried under the drive. The reason for 2 fcu's is that there is a second 230v cable at the other pillar (for the remote) which originates from the gate (motor) controller box. This would save me having to bury a cable under the drive. So in essence I would be tapping into the mains on either side of the gate. The gate supply has its own dedicated 2way CU box which is RCD protected. Thanks for your help.
Wouldn't think so no not a good idea recently qualified eh, May be a bit more experience is required David 999 Rome wasn't built in a day, I' m sure you will make a fine Electrician but more experience is required Mate. Only time will tell keep asking the questions, what experience and quals do you hold? More information could be beneficial.
 
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Hi - you may find the gate is already on a 3A FCU, just saying. Is there anything that makes you think you can’t use the existing supply? ( it seems ok to me :) )
Thanks Wilko you mean without using a fcu?
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I agree with wilco, although gates often have a 13A supply, still wouldn't be a problem. What controls the lights?
The lights will be on PIR's and possibly Dusk to Dawn sensor. For maintenance the MCB
Thanks
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Wouldn't think so no not a good idea recently qualified eh, May be a bit more experience is required David 999 Rome wasn't built in a day, I' m sure you will make a fine Electrician but more experience is required Mate. Only time will tell keep asking the questions, what experience and quals do you hold? More information could be beneficial.
Hi Pete would be helpful if you could qualify why you don't think so. What additional info do you need?
 
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What is the OCPD for the supply circuit?
 
TBH tapping in is not ideal however practically it makes sense. If there's a fault then the lights and gate lose power, not the end of the world as the gates should be able to be operated manually.

I would use double pole SFCU for the lights so they could be isolated in case of an earth fault and also for local maintenance.
 
Thank you Strima! any idea where i can source a double pole SFCU with an ip rating of 55-66? Cheers!
youcan use a suitably sized IP rated ad. box to fit the SFCU in. summink like :
https://www.screwflix..com/p/schnei...ox-with-knockouts-grey-150-x-105-x-80mm/97645
 
Thanks Telectrix I was looking for one that had an easy accessible switch but guess it would do the trick. And as there is already such a box on one pillar I will only need to fit one. Thanks for taking the time.
 
TBH tapping in is not ideal however practically it makes sense. If there's a fault then the lights and gate lose power, not the end of the world as the gates should be able to be operated manually.

I would use double pole SFCU for the lights so they could be isolated in case of an earth fault and also for local maintenance.

Many brick lights are not noted for reliability, and it is more a question of when they fail, rather than if.

I have customer who has brick lights either side of the gates (4 lights, one each side of the entrance drive and the exit drive). Everything is on one circuit. Although it is possible to isolate the brick lights in the gate control box, the customer is not really able to open the box up and do that (he is elderly). So when a light fails, he has to have someone wind one of the gates open manually and leave it open, creating a security risk. Otherwise he is locked in/out of his property.

So if you have to share the power between the gate(s) and brick lights, bear in mind how the bricks can be easily isolated by a non-skilled person. And bear in mind the occupier might be in or out of the property when the power trips.
 
Many brick lights are not noted for reliability, and it is more a question of when they fail, rather than if.

I have customer who has brick lights either side of the gates (4 lights, one each side of the entrance drive and the exit drive). Everything is on one circuit. Although it is possible to isolate the brick lights in the gate control box, the customer is not really able to open the box up and do that (he is elderly). So when a light fails, he has to have someone wind one of the gates open manually and leave it open, creating a security risk. Otherwise he is locked in/out of his property.

So if you have to share the power between the gate(s) and brick lights, bear in mind how the bricks can be easily isolated by a non-skilled person. And bear in mind the occupier might be in or out of the property when the power trips.
Thanks SJD very valid point to consider. If the 3 amp fuse in the SFCU blows without the incoming gate supply MCB tripping then presumably it wouldn't affect the gates. But if the MCB trips then the gate will have to be operated manually. Is this a sufficiently significant issue to bring in a new supply just for the lights? Or the alternative, solar powered brick and surface mounted PIR lights?
 
Hello David,
Why PIR operated, is that so they only operate when accessing the gates?
If so there are probably auxiliary contacts for switching such things as lights that operate when the gates open/close inside the control box and therefore standard non pir fittings will do.
May be a problem with light on opposite side, although may still be possible to use the existing cable for the same depending upon how many cores it contains! or use of a wireless switching arrangement.
 
Hello David,
Why PIR operated, is that so they only operate when accessing the gates?
If so there are probably auxiliary contacts for switching such things as lights that operate when the gates open/close inside the control box and therefore standard non pir fittings will do.
May be a problem with light on opposite side, although may still be possible to use the existing cable for the same depending upon how many cores it contains! or use of a wireless switching arrangement.
Thanks DefyG I appreciate your input. Yes so PIR and possibly dusk to dawn sensor is mainly for lighting up the drive for gate access. However the original installation which is now defunct had a switch inside the house. So client would prefer this option. However too much is involved in rewiring from the house. So other option is like you say a wireless remote. I doubt there is provision in the control box otherwise it would surely have been fitted when they fitted the gate which is now quite old. But no harm in asking the manufacturers. The cable running to opposite pillar is 3 core and there is an additional cable for the sensor. Thanks
 

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Rather than whether it is a 3A fuse blowing or the MCB tripping, the RCD for the gate & new brick lights is perhaps more likely to trip as water, soil, worms, slugs or insects fill up one of the brick lights.
 

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