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Discuss Switch in brick wall door opening in the DIY Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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So the wife wants to put a switch in a patio door opening. Wall is a cavity wall. I couldn't see in section 7.3.2 of my onsite guide that it was expressly forbidden but equally I wouldn't know where the cable should be run to be compliant because the safe zone seems to assume the zoned areas are flat but if the cable was to go directly up it would go through the lintel and then move to become part of a different wall. (i.e. from the end of the wall in the doorway to in front of the wall when it gets above door height) Its a simple situation but hard to explain.

From a practical point of view I'd obviously rather I didn't have to drill through the lintel but if I run the cable just outside the doorway, I guess it wouldn't be compliant unless a fitted a blanking plate (not desirable) or 50mm deep into the wall (structurally not good).

The only "get out of jail" I can think of is that in the diagram of the room zones, the vertical end of wall 150mm zone straddles both sides of the internal corner shown. So maybe external corners (like in a door opening) also allow the zone to extend around the corner?
 

Spoon

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Take a pic of the area and mark up where you are thinking of putting the cable..... My brain is too small to understand the above... :smiley:

Oh and welcome to the forum mate.
 

GBDamo

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If im reading that right, you want a switch on the reveal inside a door.

If so then the inside edge of the joining wall is not a zone in my mind as the edge doesn't run floor to ceiling.

With the light switch in place it.......

Forget it, this is a stupid idea, give her a talking to and stick it on the wall loke a normal person.
 
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Many thanks for the welcome and replies and sorry for complicated description. I'll had a pic asap. In meantime yes it is in door reveal.

I'll try and talk to her again about the position! Espeically as it sounds even if its done compliantly it would scream "diy" if its in an unusual position.

Problem we have is that space is very limited and idea was to have a cupboard right up to the door reveal thus covering any normally positioned swtich. Pic to follow....
 
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Red is proposed new position (although rapidly rethinking !)
Black is proposed end of new cupboard

As you can probably guess the cables were leading to an old switch. The mcb for that circuit has been switched off and removed.
 

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SparkySy

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I had this recently on a job and ended up putting a socket in lower down on the inside wall then drilled through to the switch position in the reveal from the chase for the socket. That way the cable was in the prescribed zone for the socket and back entry to the reveal switch if that makes sense.
Edit exactly like above but with a twin socket on the wall with the cables hanging from it!
 

telectrix

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what is the switch for? why not fit a Quinetic.? that way no cables to the switc. you can even stick the switch on the glass.
 
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Two superb ideas - I'll read into wireless option a bit more before making final decision.

THanks so much.

For the record, and because I'd done it straight after reading Sy's reply, this is what I understand he did ?
 

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@sparkless2
That was exactly what I meant with the chase as per your drawing but the Quinetic switches are most excellent I can also assure you!
Yes thanks for making me think about that option. I'm starting to lean against because I need to fit a second switch on the same wall but higher up. (I think DP or 3a FCU for a 100W external PIR lamp that is currently hard wired without any isolator into existing 5a lighting circuit) .
That said I could move the location of that somewhere else but there aren't that many options. Maybe the back of the new cupboard but I guess that's frowned upon too.
 
T

Toneyz

Is it that just the wife wants the switch there as if you are contemplating having the socket why the switch can't go on the same wall?
 
D

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That existing chase looks to be more than 150mm from the corner. If it was less than 150mm, it would be in a prescribed route (safe zone).
The fact that the corner stops at the top of the door, rather than at the ceiling, should not then mean the prescribed route also stops.
 

pirate

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Yes JK, the very same, and what a lot of fuss they saved. fast, no switch drops, less cable = worth the extra cost!
 
Have a look at the quinetic wireless range.......you could have the switch anywhere you wanted..... go to the TLC website.....have used these myself and can recommend them
 
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Thanks yet again for the really informative set of replies and hopefully also of use to others - I did quite a few searches on this topic and couldn't find anything.

I've read more about the Quinetic switch. It being so popular here says quite a lot I think. I must admit I was slightly bowled over when I realised there are no batteries since it uses kinetic energy from pressing the switch. I guess though they are of even more use to electricians because time is money where as for me I can drill/chase/make good free of charge.

I was going to fit the DP for the outside light higher up in the reveal but since it won't be used very often, maybe I could put it at the back of the cupboard(?) That would then make a lot more sense to fit a Quinitic.

That existing chase looks to be more than 150mm from the corner. If it was less than 150mm, it would be in a prescribed route (safe zone).
The fact that the corner stops at the top of the door, rather than at the ceiling, should not then mean the prescribed route also stops.
I don't have the full regs but I did re-read my on site guide again (18th) and it did seem to suggest that any corner internal or external is in a safe zone as you suggest. That said it does show a diagram with a door reveal but does NOT show its external corners being in a safe zone.

I don't mind spending money on the Quinetic but with the DP switch to fit which is obviously wired, I'm not sure what is for the best.
 

telectrix

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quinetic... and put the D/P switch in cupboard. if the outside light is on a sensor, then the switch is just for isolation purposes.
 
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quinetic... and put the D/P switch in cupboard. if the outside light is on a sensor, then the switch is just for isolation purposes.
Right! That's it then - always like a decision. I'm going with that!

Please nobody else give me any alternative LOL.

Thanks once again for all replies. All have been very constructive. What a brilliant forum !
 

bigspark17

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What price is the quintec? Are the receivers dimmable & what price is a transmitter & receiver?

I use click smart for this sort of application but it is pricey.
 

telectrix

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cheaper alternative . i'm going to order one and see if they're any good. not much outlay for a punt:
 
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Spoon

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Do they do kits that don't use screws for the lighting wiring?
Would be good if they did a maintenance free version.
 

pirate

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bigspark17, yes they do dimmable receivers. TLC have the full range. However, the dimmable range are not fully compatible with some LED fittings.
spoon, the receivers have screw terminals as far as I know on all of them. However, as regards being maintenance free, you don't want to install them in an inaccessible location because you may need to pair the receiver with another switch, or re-pair with the original switch, which requires physical access to the receiver to actuate the pairing button. Thus, the screw connections are fine
 

Paignton pete

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Yes thanks for making me think about that option. I'm starting to lean against because I need to fit a second switch on the same wall but higher up. (I think DP or 3a FCU for a 100W external PIR lamp that is currently hard wired without any isolator into existing 5a lighting circuit) .
That said I could move the location of that somewhere else but there aren't that many options. Maybe the back of the new cupboard but I guess that's frowned upon too.
Make that wireless also. On a 2 gang
 
D

Deleted member 26818

Can these quinetic things be operated from your smart phone?
 
T

Toneyz

cheaper alternative . i'm going to order one and see if they're any good. not much outlay for a punt:
Have a look at a couple of online videos on youtube by DSS Electrical will give you a good insight.
 

pirate

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Ha! I know Morse code! As for semaphore, I only break out the flags for dressing overall (google it, ye landlubbers!) before a rum party!
I even had radio telephone on my old ship, many years ago...started off with DSB, then SSB, then VHF with DSC...before that lot, it was two Tate & Lyle syrup cans and a length of sisal, but the range was fairly limited...
 

Spoon

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However, as regards being maintenance free, you don't want to install them in an inaccessible location because you may need to pair the receiver with another switch, or re-pair with the original switch, which requires physical access to the receiver to actuate the pairing button.
And that is why your great intelligence equals your stunning good looks... My little brain didn't think of that.... Silly me...
 

123

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I must admit I have been using these a lot recently, they are only in Burton on Trent. Usually come next day as well!

Just had a quick look - on the prewired receiver L is Blue and N is Brown:oops:
 

SparkySy

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That is odd! Not noticed that on the site. I will dig one out later and put a picture up, I have a spare one at the workshop!
Not had any trouble with them and have fitted probably 10 so far!
 
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cheaper alternative . i'm going to order one and see if they're any good. not much outlay for a punt:
There are even some that you can get before September :D

Ahh: Seems like I'm too knew to post links. Search Ebay for 382652254199

But, I'm obviously not a qualified electrician but I would always be worried about unbranded stuff with 240v going across it. What would happen if in 3 months it burst into flames? What come back would I have? (none). On the other hand it does show how much margin the various middle men (importers, retailer etc) are making on the Quinetic.
 

SparkySy

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Ok so I eventually got to the workshop and well all the ones I have are correct so don't know what is going on with the picture!
As I say not had a problem with any of them so far and have installed around 10, some for garden lighting some for a kitchen, all worked flawlessly and they are a lot cheaper than the branded onesIMG_20190728_1840394.jpg
 

pirate

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In my limited experience I have found a few anomalies in wiring labels. I installed 2 thermostats/controllers for heating panels recently. The diagram in the written instruction leaflet,and the diagram printed on the stat, the wiring was correct...but on reading the instructions it reversed polarity...a simple typo really, but if you were reading it out to an apprentice of little brain, things would go wrong.
I brought this to the attention of the distributors, and they said they would "look into it", so that's fine!
 
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