USA politics, recent events.

[Darkwood]

What's Sullivan got to do with Antifa, BLM, or the left in general? He's a self confessed insurgent.

He is facing charges as part of the BLM from events of last year, I would take what he says with a very big pinch of salt, he isn't exactly a figure of truth, I relate him to the former mentioned groups because his social media communication were to these groups, I don't care if he says he is the messiah, all I know is he is definitely a naughty boy and the Key point is he was not a trump supporter which is where I was going with that as the media made out t was all trump supporters been violent.

 

[brianmoooore]

Yes, faces charges from a BLM event, and he faces charges from a Trump supporting event. I could say he's a Trump supporter masquerading as a supporter of, and infiltrating a BLM event.

 

[Darkwood]

Yes, faces charges from a BLM event, and he faces charges from a Trump supporting event. I could say he's a Trump supporter masquerading as a supporter of, and infiltrating a BLM event.

Yes you make a very good point, but he has form and his own family have give a lengthy extensive interview, his Brother James Sullivan who actually is very grounded explains the problems he has caused the family and he suspects he is mentally ill, he does his best to help his brother and pick up the mess he leaves and from all his discussions it is clear John Sullivan is Left wing ideology so we can forget that he might be a Trump supporter.. James Sullivan actually is a Trump fan ironically.

 

[brianmoooore]

He whipped up the crowd at a right wing protest. He whipped up the crowd at a left wing protest. He's neither left nor right, he claims to be an insurgent - someone who aims to bring down the government, any government.
I was a university student in the early '70s, and am no stranger to the odd protest march, demonstration, or sit in, and these people would try to infiltrate then, just as now.

 

[andyb]

There has been over 100 arrests with more to come, seems strange to pin the assertion of the riot being organized by antifa and BLM to one man with very tenuous links to BLM. This Washington Post article gives a broader view.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/01/16/sullivan-video-arrested/

Here’s another Washington post link to some of the others arrested. A quick search on the names will give you an idea of the instigators. affiliations.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/interactive/2021/arrests-capitol-riot/

 

[Midwest]

As said by others, it would be normal security protocol, for law enforcement to face away from the person being protected. In this instance, it looks strange because there are no crowds.

Nahaku McFadden, media operations chief for the National Guard Bureau of Public Affairs, confirmed to Reuters via email that the video shows routine protocol for this type of duty.

“These National Guardsmen were on duty with a mission to protect the president against potential threats,” she said. “Some are facing out to ensure the safety of all.’’ (Reuters)

As to why there were ‘25000 military & 1000’s of law enforcement‘, cos the Yanks can. After their embarrassing event at the Capitol, the Inauguration was going to happen come what may, with no large scenes of decent.

Too much rubbish being spouted about this, like the Vice President swore the oath on her handbag!

 

[FatAlan]

Just shows that we are in extremely dangerous times with multiple information sources with no real way of knowing what is true. I suppose its always been the case with MSM and the term "propaganda'. I deleted the Daily Mail app years ago I don't really read any of the MSM newspapers. The BBC is now more tightly controlled by the government. Journalists appear to be very restricted and are very weak in holding the government to account. Probably has always been the case but nowadays information, true or false, gets out instantly. Which ever way you look at it we are being played, manipulated, conditioned. Big brother is well and truly here.

 

[Darkwood]

@Andy B -

There were plenty of trump supporters who entered the building, that I do not dispute, it really doesn't help that security actually opened the side doors up to allow them in either, my claim and one where I gave an example of was that the violence and forced entry to Capitol Hill was not spontaneous to Trump's speech down the road because

A- it still had 20mins left to go when the break in started
B- those at the speech would have been 1hr late yet we see Pelosi trying to blame it on Trump's speech and his crowd.

Several of the people arrested who have been found to be part of the violent acts and were tooled up for violence were linked to other organisation and not Trump supporters even though they acted like they were, John Sullivan did not orchestrate the whole event, I never claimed that to be the case, I simply said he was one of many arrested that had preplanned the violence.
What we do know now is the FBI was well aware 1 week before this that there were groups intent in causing disruption and violence, the strange thing is why did they not prepare for it then, the railings were lax, the security was minimal and we even saw them assist the entry of Capitol Hill.
Within 24hrs Pelosi sets out to impeach Trump again without hearing, witness statements or normal legal procedure, this is unheard of and demonstrates a blatant disregard for legal process or for the constitutional rights of the Trump either as the president or a private citizen, the only reason you push for impeachment like this with trial is because you already know he is not guilty which has now been shown by FBI feedback that it was prestaged attack.

Most of the people in the building who were later arrested are simply on trespass charges as they were not violent in anyway and just looked like tourists taking pictures if you watch the footage, these were more than likely mainly the real Trump supporters, I dare say the odd one did get caught in the violence and is guilty but it is unlikely we will see the same Trump supporters been linked to a preemptive strike on Capitol Hill as we are seeing with groups of Antifa and BLM supporters arrested.

In Sullivans footage it is clear the security are even helping them in some areas directing them to the rooms they are looking for, opening doors and barriers outside... from the footage of just one person you really have to ask yourself if this was staged at a higher level than the rioters on the ground because it is evident in a lot of the footage that they were more or less standing down and even guiding the flow of people deeper into the main chambers. However this is my opinion from personally watching the video footage of some of the activists like John Sullivan.. take what you will from the footage yourself but it definitely does leave you with bigger questions than you had before you see it.

 

[Timbo]

This sums it up:

 

[Midwest]

@Andy B -

There were plenty of trump supporters who entered the building, that I do not dispute, it really doesn't help that security actually opened the side doors up to allow them in either, my claim and one where I gave an example of was that the violence and forced entry to Capitol Hill was not spontaneous to Trump's speech down the road because

A- it still had 20mins left to go when the break in started
B- those at the speech would have been 1hr late yet we see Pelosi trying to blame it on Trump's speech and his crowd.

Several of the people arrested who have been found to be part of the violent acts and were tooled up for violence were linked to other organisation and not Trump supporters even though they acted like they were, John Sullivan did not orchestrate the whole event, I never claimed that to be the case, I simply said he was one of many arrested that had preplanned the violence.
What we do know now is the FBI was well aware 1 week before this that there were groups intent in causing disruption and violence, the strange thing is why did they not prepare for it then, the railings were lax, the security was minimal and we even saw them assist the entry of Capitol Hill.
Within 24hrs Pelosi sets out to impeach Trump again without hearing, witness statements or normal legal procedure, this is unheard of and demonstrates a blatant disregard for legal process or for the constitutional rights of the Trump either as the president or a private citizen, the only reason you push for impeachment like this with trial is because you already know he is not guilty which has now been shown by FBI feedback that it was prestaged attack.

Most of the people in the building who were later arrested are simply on trespass charges as they were not violent in anyway and just looked like tourists taking pictures if you watch the footage, these were more than likely mainly the real Trump supporters, I dare say the odd one did get caught in the violence and is guilty but it is unlikely we will see the same Trump supporters been linked to a preemptive strike on Capitol Hill as we are seeing with groups of Antifa and BLM supporters arrested.

In Sullivans footage it is clear the security are even helping them in some areas directing them to the rooms they are looking for, opening doors and barriers outside... from the footage of just one person you really have to ask yourself if this was staged at a higher level than the rioters on the ground because it is evident in a lot of the footage that they were more or less standing down and even guiding the flow of people deeper into the main chambers. However this is my opinion from personally watching the video footage of some of the activists like John Sullivan.. take what you will from the footage yourself but it definitely does leave you with bigger questions than you had before you see it.

I not I watched the same video footage then; I saw many people demonstrating violence, trying to smash down doors, one unfortunately shot, a police was killed, dozens more injured & property was damaged. That’s hardly acting like tourists.

It seems the department responsible for the buildings security, were totally unprepared, and initially declined support. I believe some of those in charge have resigned.

 

[Darkwood]

@Midwest
Yes there was violence, death and destruction from a small % and everyone has condemned it including Trump, the ill prepared is part of my point, they knew this was coming yet it seems nothing was done to arrest them prior to the event or to prepare for it, if that is the case then i would suggest they wanted this to happen.. I find it extremely convenient that prepared fraud evidence was going to be put through the house meeting where for the first time they would be forced to acknowledge it and rule on it, this breach conveniently blocked that so was there a will to let this occur for political gain because it has certainly benefited Biden in that sense.
I at this point will say this is speculation but when you look back and realise evidence review has been blocked over 80 times by the swing states been challenged and has never actually been put forward to be ruled on hence anyone can officially say they haven't seen any evidence of fraud.. ie, it was blocked from been presented.

 

[Des 56]

51
Are you really blaming the institution for the acts of that rioting mob ?
If you are then I would expect all of your thoughts on the subject are misguided
To even contemplate the whole of the US justice system being corrupt by dismissing the content of the rulings of the courts ( even thesupreme court that Trump overloaded with his choices) not being favourable to the accusations your are deluding yourself

That Trump guy was a embarrassment to the standards of decency expected by any ordinary human being never mind someone in such a powerful position as leader of the free world
Lets hope for the sake of everybody that no one so incompetent,uneducated and downright horrid person ever again gets to a position that he attained
It will take many years to rid the world of the terrible effect he has had on what should be regarded as a acceptable standard of decency

I like so many around the world am so happy that the majority of people in the US had the common sense and decency to eject that rotten to the core guy from power

 

[Midwest]

@Midwest
Yes there was violence, death and destruction from a small % and everyone has condemned it including Trump, the ill prepared is part of my point, they knew this was coming yet it seems nothing was done to arrest them prior to the event or to prepare for it, if that is the case then i would suggest they wanted this to happen.. I find it extremely convenient that prepared fraud evidence was going to be put through the house meeting where for the first time they would be forced to acknowledge it and rule on it, this breach conveniently blocked that so was there a will to let this occur for political gain because it has certainly benefited Biden in that sense.
I at this point will say this is speculation but when you look back and realise evidence review has been blocked over 80 times by the swing states been challenged and has never actually been put forward to be ruled on hence anyone can officially say they haven't seen any evidence of fraud.. ie, it was blocked from been presented.

For the most part, those that entered could see of the violence being offered. Not being there, it’s difficult to know of the percentages. But that’s regardless. Those that took part, would know that entry would be challenged and could result in confrontation and violence or other unlawfulness; they were not taking part in a peaceful protest in a street. They are all responsible for the deaths and injuries that happened.

Making superstitions over the timeline of events, is pointless. That will be for the enquiry and for the courts.

As for election fraud, I believe the US body for such has refuted those claims. Whatever has happened will eventually become clear either way.

Trump lit the fire, and was slow to put it out. Many world leaders are guilty of abuse of power, but here he seemly stumbled into this event, with no thought of what he was doing. Good riddens I say.

 

[Des 56]

The last 4 years has been as if the British national parties American cousins have ruled and undermined decency and democratic standards

They almost destroyed democracy with the invasion of the Capital building
Time will tell if democracy does actually survive their rebellion because the damage will fester for years to come or at least until the generation who supported that tyrant has passed

Hopefully a president of integrity and understanding in Biden can dampen down the idiocy of joining that cult that is Trump
Lets hope the dis affected rural population disenchantment with politicians it can be addressed in a sane manner in the future

That president Trump was by far the worst in the history of the US and on a worldwide stage it has caused the US to become ridiculed for electing such a person and he would be in the top of worst in the world
I can confidently state the rest of the free world will be ecstatic that he no longer leads the US and with it "us" to the destruction it would surely have been if he was still around

One positive note,even if the horrid being was to put up for election again,he would certainly lose,
He could not win when so many hid from the truth of his resounding defea
What he represented,when people start to realise their incredible mistake electing that guy,they may not vote him again anytime soon

 

[GBDamo]

51
Are you really blaming the institution for the acts of that rioting mob ?
If you are then I would expect all of your thoughts on the subject are misguided
To even contemplate the whole of the US justice system being corrupt by dismissing the content of the rulings of the courts ( even thesupreme court that Trump overloaded with his choices) not being favourable to the accusations your are deluding yourself

That Trump guy was a embarrassment to the standards of decency expected by any ordinary human being never mind someone in such a powerful position as leader of the free world
Lets hope for the sake of everybody that no one so incompetent,uneducated and downright horrid person ever again gets to a position that he attained
It will take many years to rid the world of the terrible effect he has had on what should be regarded as a acceptable standard of decency

I like so many around the world am so happy that the majority of people in the US had the common sense and decency to eject that rotten to the core guy from power

For the best part of five years now the world has been suffering with Trump Derangement Syndrome so you're not by any means in the minority.

But can you point to specifics that made you feel Trump was this "Embarrassment to the standards of decency expected of normal human beings"

Yes he's a bit of a prat but this alone shows, that when you strip away all the hyperbole, he had higher morality than his predecessors.

 

[Darkwood]

51
Are you really blaming the institution for the acts of that rioting mob ?
If you are then I would expect all of your thoughts on the subject are misguided
To even contemplate the whole of the US justice system being corrupt by dismissing the content of the rulings of the courts ( even thesupreme court that Trump overloaded with his choices) not being favourable to the accusations your are deluding yourself

That Trump guy was a embarrassment to the standards of decency expected by any ordinary human being never mind someone in such a powerful position as leader of the free world
Lets hope for the sake of everybody that no one so incompetent,uneducated and downright horrid person ever again gets to a position that he attained
It will take many years to rid the world of the terrible effect he has had on what should be regarded as a acceptable standard of decency

I like so many around the world am so happy that the majority of people in the US had the common sense and decency to eject that rotten to the core guy from power

I have pressed too much into that fact it is my opinion but it does have solid foundation, the FBI report written up by its FBI Norfolk office expressed concerns as they had learned of calls for violence in advance that would be starting at Capitol Hill that day, they decided to do nothing and after the event even played down that they knew anything about it (a bit late for that), the violence has since continued everyday in different states with various targeted buildings been smashed up.(not trump supporters btw but the same group they were made aware of).
In declassified documents there is historical evidence of political bias in the CIA and FBI and they were part of the attempt to kick Trump out of office over a fake Russia collusion plot
I can give links to the declassified material from the CIA and FBI vaults if you wish as it has been put in the public arena now, what is in them documents and files is very disturbing to anyone that thought law was law and the CIA and FBI played by the book.
All I ask is you to actually answer this -

If the FBI knew (which it reported itself) before the riots then why didn't they take steps to stop it.
If they knew then why didn't they correct the new government telling them they have evidence it was pre-planned thus the accusations on Trump cannot be true.

The only logical answer unless you can give me an alternative is that there was a deliberate political decision made to let it happen, sometimes the lack of action can be a sign of something more sinister is occurring and it is info' and evidence like this that has me questioning who exactly knows what and why it wasn't acted on and why the 2nd impeachment was allowed to move forward given the FBI knew it was prearranged.

I think deluded is a strong word to apply when you don't know what I have seen or read and you don't even ask for anything to backup my claim before suggesting that, I am quite happy to disclose the info if you let me know what you are after, the declassified are in their thousands of pages and spread about the internet.

 

[Marvo]

.......The BBC is now more tightly controlled by the government. Journalists appear to be very restricted and are very weak in holding the government to account.......

I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion. The BBC are a notorious left leaning media outlet that's chosen to ignore it's legal mandate of balanced content for many years.

Trump had an unmatched entertainment value, I miss him.

 

[snowhead]

Trump had an unmatched entertainment value, I miss him.

Don't worry he won't be out the news for long.

To name but a few,

Impeachment, if that fails because he's no longer President then it'll be a court case instead for Insurrection which could result in jail where Impeachment wouldn't have.

Rudy Giuliani, Trumps Layer and best friend,, is about to be sued by the voting machine supplier for $1.3bn and I'm sure his defence will include the fact Donald told him to tell the lies about the voting machines.

Hundreds of lawsuits by his property tennants which were held off due to the election.

Multiple International banks suing to get their loans back.

 

[Darkwood]

@snowhead

The second impeachment is a joke and will like the first and the several other at the beginning of Trump's term will fall flat, it is merely a tool to misdirect public attention from the devastating EO's Biden is now signing and the Biden hard drives that are damning Biden and his family.
While all the Dem's are rejoicing and shouting for Trumps head on a platter as Pelosi feeds them the desire, they are not looking at the impending charges coming to Bidens family.

Dominion has threatened to Sue both Powell and Rudy unless they retract their claims, the fact we are several week in from that legal threat and neither have retracted these claims shows it was a strategic move on Dominion's side to see if the evidence they have is solid, the fact this threat has not yet been followed through speaks volumes in the legal world.
Let's be hypothetical here and say they have solid evidence, if Dominion bring a legal case against them then they will provide the very route that allows them to present the evidence, a position that US courts have been stonewalling and preventing from happening and a place Dominion does not want to go, that is why it has all gone quiet on that front.

I would be happy if Dominion tried to sue them as it suits Powell and Rudy more to have them do so.

 

[Midwest]

I have pressed too much into that fact it is my opinion but it does have solid foundation, the FBI report written up by its FBI Norfolk office expressed concerns as they had learned of calls for violence in advance that would be starting at Capitol Hill that day, they decided to do nothing and after the event even played down that they knew anything about it (a bit late for that), the violence has since continued everyday in different states with various targeted buildings been smashed up.(not trump supporters btw but the same group they were made aware of).
In declassified documents there is historical evidence of political bias in the CIA and FBI and they were part of the attempt to kick Trump out of office over a fake Russia collusion plot
I can give links to the declassified material from the CIA and FBI vaults if you wish as it has been put in the public arena now, what is in them documents and files is very disturbing to anyone that thought law was law and the CIA and FBI played by the book.
All I ask is you to actually answer this -

If the FBI knew (which it reported itself) before the riots then why didn't they take steps to stop it.
If they knew then why didn't they correct the new government telling them they have evidence it was pre-planned thus the accusations on Trump cannot be true.

The only logical answer unless you can give me an alternative is that there was a deliberate political decision made to let it happen, sometimes the lack of action can be a sign of something more sinister is occurring and it is info' and evidence like this that has me questioning who exactly knows what and why it wasn't acted on and why the 2nd impeachment was allowed to move forward given the FBI knew it was prearranged.

I think deluded is a strong word to apply when you don't know what I have seen or read and you don't even ask for anything to backup my claim before suggesting that, I am quite happy to disclose the info if you let me know what you are after, the declassified are in their thousands of pages and spread about the internet.

I’ve read things differently; various agencies offered the Capitol Police assistance beforehand and they declined it. The Capitol Police may have questions to answer, but this incident wasn’t a staged operation to make Trump look a bumbling fool with criminal intent. He managed that himself.

This was the action of a baying mob. This sort of thing happens in many other free democratic countries.

Why are you trying to make this is some kind of conspiracy thing, when typically the simple truth about things, is the real truth.