Well I would have never thought it----

[plugsandsparks]

Those that say "It was a silly mistake to leave" and "i told you so " etc etc - are witnessing what the EU is all about. Its their way or the highway, they have consistently ignored the will of the people in various countries and there is no wonder Greece had such a hard time. You remainers have witnessed in your lifetime a country (Greece) that has been totally shafted by Germany (EU) and will be a shell of a country for many generations and you think this is a good institution?
I said at the very beginning negotiations would be futile and we should just leave, pay no money and deal with the issues, one by one. I see no other way. e.g. NI - We wont put up a hard border, so if the EU want one thats up to ROI to deal with it not us - simple, we confuse the issue by trying to please all the people all of the time, impossible and energy sapping.

 

[plugsandsparks]

Not wanting to get into party politics, but he could hardly remain as PM, when he was an avid remainer. As like now he would of been accused of not putting his full weight behind Brexit, wanting it to fail. May kept a very low profile during the debate before the vote.

I was actually amazed that the PM so vehemently took a position on an in/out referendum. I expected the government to present both sides of the argument , i.e. upsides and downsides to both options and then leave it to the people. The PM spent all his time and money talking -------s and he got what he deserved, mistake no1, mistake no2 was to put another remainer as PM. May is upset with EUs handling of her chequers plan, but it is because she actually believes the EU will do whats best for all parties, the EU wont , never have, never will. She should come out of No10, now, state negotiations have failed, there is no deal to vote on, we leave on WTO, keep our £39B and crack on trading with ROW to replace all goods we buy from EU. Anyone fancy a KIA car, Kangeroo steak and Kiwi wine... lol

 

[Midwest]

I was actually amazed that the PM so vehemently took a position on an in/out referendum. I expected the government to present both sides of the argument , i.e. upsides and downsides to both options and then leave it to the people. The PM spent all his time and money talking ******** and he got what he deserved, mistake no1, mistake no2 was to put another remainer as PM.

We allegedly run as a Democracy, people have their own views. Thats why we have politicians & different political parties, who we can align with or not. Without them having differing views, there would of been no debate, and there would of been even less people turn out & voted.

 

[Des 56]

Are you seriously telling me that the over 45's had no right to vote? You sound like a right t*t, no actually you dont sound like one you're a t*t.

There are people who voted who were kids during the War where instead of playing on their Ipad they had Luftwaffe flying above them bombing the living hell out of their city while their fathers were over in Europe liberating their --- from ---- Germany and you have the damn cheek to say they have no right to vote!

Those same kids were having their freedom preserved by their own sacrifice and by the sacrifice of their parents because the alternative was slavery and poverty,it was a challenge that had to be taken on or that would have become a reality


Today sees the future of the younger generation threatened,not by the actions of another country but by its own citizens (who themselves had been saved from a different form of destruction)

This decision to leave will be so damaging for them,it can even be compared to the uncertain future the wartime youngsters faced
You have no right whatsoever to claim the heroics of those who fought in the war,I have direct understanding of what it meant to lose a close family member to that conflict

Neither does the other European countries need to grovel at our feet for the freedom this country gained for them,they were also victims of a terrible evil and suffered as much or more than perhaps most in UK

The over 45s obviously have a right to vote,what we do not have is the moral right to use that vote to change the direction of the country,perhaps for decades if not hundreds of years, when its not us who will bear the terrible consequences but our children

We are doing exactly the opposite of our protectors of world war 2,they fought for our future,we are deliberately sabotaging the future of our own children,all for the nationalist,racialist bigoted generation that we no doubt remain
Because we do not embrace the modern world and still dream the fantasy of what we once were, we put our prejudices about other countries before the well being and future of our young and its a disgrace

Finally you sound like the absolute peak of the morons who are deciding the future of our children for them

You harp back to a part of history with hate and prejudice in your heart,you are the reason there is so much division in this country,you and your racialist tones that makes the people of the UK appear anti European and especially anti German,the people who occupy those countries these days have no need to shoulder responsibility for the actions of their parents at that time

The war was not your burden,you did not carry that burden,you prey on the deaths and the suffering of those who did have to carry that burden and use your acquired hate to drive your thinking

You should be ashamed of what you wrote in your post

 

[telectrix]

Des, I respect your views, but please come up with some facts to base your prophecy of doom and gloom. this country has seen record investment from overseas, even before we've left the corrupt eu. where's the evidence that we will be destitute without staying in the eu?

 

[Des 56]

You sound like a right t*t, no actually you dont sound like one you're a t*t.

And you are a foul mouthed moron

Thank you Tel,I will give you the courtesy of a reply after I collect some recent facts and predictions

I also respect your view Tel
We make decisions based on a majority vote,its why I don't contest the actual vote that was taken

If the topic is brought up and the posts are all full of anti European sentiments,I see it as my obligation to state the other opinion
I genuinely believe us over 45s had no right to decide this matter whatever side of he fence we sit

 

[Nigel]

And you are a foul mouthed moron

Thank you Tel,I will give you the courtesy of a reply after I collect some recent facts and predictions

I also respect your view Tel
We make decisions based on a majority vote,its why I don't contest the actual vote that was taken

If the topic is brought up and the posts are all full of anti European sentiments,I see it as my obligation to state the other opinion
I genuinely believe us over 45s had no right to decide this matter whatever side of he fence we sit

Why not? Is a 46 year okd not entitled a say in how he lives for maybe the next 50 years?

It really is an absurb concept.

I am under 45 by the way.

 

[Midwest]

Thing is, nobody knows how this whole thing is going to pan out. So Tel might be right or Des might be right or a combination of the both. Even the most cleverest of economic experts and world leaders can't agree.

So with all due respect, lets not pretend we have got a better insight. Something like this has not happened in recent times.

 

[telectrix]

problem is Des, if we only allowed under 45's to vote, we'd have a result dependent on weed smoking students who couldn't give a ---- about the future of the country as long as someone in power legalised cannabis and subsidised the cost of a new iphone.

 

[Nigel]

Democracy is only democracy if everyone has a say. Everyone has had a say within reason (children quiet rightly cannot vote).

I cannot quite believe what I am hearing from Des. A typical leftist agenda of silencing the opposition.

 

[MDJ]

I am under 15 by the way.

Fixed that for you

 

[MDJ]

Des, I respect your views,

So do I, I love the guy, Des is a great fella, and he is entitled to his view, which I respect every time he posts, probably because I agree with almost everything he says.

 

[MDJ]

I cannot quite believe what I am hearing from Des. A typical leftist agenda of silencing the opposition.

Oi, thats out of order, I vote Labour, always have and never want the opposition silencing, your a typical right wing nutter, laaa laa laa laa la

 

[Nigel]

Oi, thats out of order, I vote Labour, always have and never want the opposition silencing, your a typical right wing nutter, laaa laa laa laa la

You are up for open debate Mike without the need to call people racist and calling for their vote to be taking away because they don’t agree with you.

What Des is saying is basically only those that agree with him can vote and anyone else is racist.

As for being on the right I think you are probably right. The thing is I do also like some liberal ideas. I am not a die hard right winger and to be honest at the next GE I think I will probably be partyless.

One thing I respect as the fundermental rights this country affords is the freedom for EVERYONE to speak and say what they want (Incitred to cause harm asside) and that everyone’s vote is equal whether that be with me or against me.

Des is free to say as he please as are we to say he is talking absolute tosh and holds democracy in contempt when it does not go the way that he would like. His comments just show him up as an old bigot.

 

[telectrix]

i can't agree that Des is a bigot, set in his socialist ways, maybe, right or wrong, he's entitled to his opinion. that's democracy. Des has never forgiven Thatcher for scargill's ill fated attempt to overthow the government of the time. that was a simple state of economics. due to our membership of the eu, we could buy coal from Germany cheaper than we could produce it here. that's why the mines closed. the krauts, with the connivance of the eu, closed our pits. so i can't see why Des wants us to remain in this currupt anti-British foreign hotch-potch that care ony for themselves.

 

[JAWS]

Those same kids were having their freedom preserved by their own sacrifice and by the sacrifice of their parents because the alternative was slavery and poverty,it was a challenge that had to be taken on or that would have become a reality


Today sees the future of the younger generation threatened,not by the actions of another country but by its own citizens (who themselves had been saved from a different form of destruction)

This decision to leave will be so damaging for them,it can even be compared to the uncertain future the wartime youngsters faced
You have no right whatsoever to claim the heroics of those who fought in the war,I have direct understanding of what it meant to lose a close family member to that conflict

Neither does the other European countries need to grovel at our feet for the freedom this country gained for them,they were also victims of a terrible evil and suffered as much or more than perhaps most in UK

The over 45s obviously have a right to vote,what we do not have is the moral right to use that vote to change the direction of the country,perhaps for decades if not hundreds of years, when its not us who will bear the terrible consequences but our children

We are doing exactly the opposite of our protectors of world war 2,they fought for our future,we are deliberately sabotaging the future of our own children,all for the nationalist,racialist bigoted generation that we no doubt remain
Because we do not embrace the modern world and still dream the fantasy of what we once were, we put our prejudices about other countries before the well being and future of our young and its a disgrace

Finally you sound like the absolute peak of the morons who are deciding the future of our children for them

You harp back to a part of history with hate and prejudice in your heart,you are the reason there is so much division in this country,you and your racialist tones that makes the people of the UK appear anti European and especially anti German,the people who occupy those countries these days have no need to shoulder responsibility for the actions of their parents at that time

The war was not your burden,you did not carry that burden,you prey on the deaths and the suffering of those who did have to carry that burden and use your acquired hate to drive your thinking

You should be ashamed of what you wrote in your post

I should be ashamed for writing what I did in my post you say. Des I appreciate your views you are entitled to it unfortuantly it was when you said over 45's shouldn't get the vote.

I have 2 friends who are now over 45 who suffered life threatening injuries after serving their country in Iraq one of them more then other, and for you to say they have no right to vote got my back up big time.

 

[Midwest]

I don't think Des is saying under 45's or over 45's cannot have their say.

I have however heard of this stance, that people over a certain age should not of voted in EU referendum. The reasoning being that it will more likely have a good or bad effect on the future of younger people, whereas the older persons will be dead & buried by the time we come to realise the effects of Brexit, whatever that might be. If you get my drift.

Its not a viewpoint I can agree with, as we should take the good advice given by our elders, who have experiences & wisdom to share.

Incidentally, no ones ever been able to answer my more important question on whether duty free will be returning, when we have finally buggered off

 

[Nigel]

i can't agree that Des is a bigot, set in his socialist ways, maybe, right or wrong, he's entitled to his opinion. that's democracy. Des has never forgiven Thatcher for scargill's ill fated attempt to overthow the government of the time. that was a simple state of economics. due to our membership of the eu, we could buy coal from Germany cheaper than we could produce it here. that's why the mines closed. the krauts, with the connivance of the eu, closed our pits. so i can't see why Des wants us to remain in this currupt anti-British foreign hotch-potch that care ony for themselves.

The definition of a bigot is someone that casts a whole group of people onto one box. Des is doing exactly that.

 

[telectrix]

I don't think Des is saying under 45's or over 45's cannot have their say.

I have however heard of this stance, that people over a certain age should not of voted in EU referendum. The reasoning being that it will more likely have a good or bad effect on the future of younger people, whereas the older persons will be dead & buried by the time we come to realise the effects of Brexit, whatever that might be. If you get my drift.

Its not a viewpoint I can agree with, as we should take the good advice given by our elders, who have experiences & wisdom to share.

Incidentally, no ones ever been able to answer my more important question on whether duty free will be returning, when we have finally buggered off

duty free, my Arse. when we joined the common market back in '72, a lot of us thought, great - smokes at EU prices. no such luck. now we pay £8 for a packet of smokes that should be £3. so much for the eu.

 

[Midwest]

Yeah but, if you start flying everywhere, HM Customs can't have so much of your cash; if it all goes to plan of course. Instead of booze cruise to Calais, it will be booze cruise to Cork.