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I have posted before my solution to this problem using a tray space between the appliances and putting the sockets and plugs in the tray space, some of you guys have very short memories, now what where we talking about, something about the Lord of the Rings?
 

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I have posted before my solution to this problem using a tray space between the appliances and putting the sockets and plugs in the tray space, some of you guys have very short memories, now what where we talking about, something about the Lord of the Rings?
Great idea. But again standard kitchens don't build that space into their design
 
Out of interest, what are the requirements in ROI for the likes of kitchen white goods?

E.g. do they require accessible means of isolation in the wring reg or is it a building regs thing (as the Scottish building regs do).
 
rare to find enugh room behind an appliance for a plug and socket, unlees the woktop is the extra 2" wide.
That's true enough. Often though you will get away with it if it's a flush fitted socket. I rarely do that though.As kitchen plans change and I hate moving stuff I prefer to leave a loose hanging 2.5 in the nominated area for the appliance and after kitchen is fitted, check out any "favourable" spaces in cupboards first. Failing that I check out the appliance to see where the "pockets" of space are at the back and mount my socket accordingly
 
That's true enough. Often though you will get away with it if it's a flush fitted socket. I rarely do that though.As kitchen plans change and I hate moving stuff I prefer to leave a loose hanging 2.5 in the nominated area for the appliance and after kitchen is fitted, check out any "favourable" spaces in cupboards first. Failing that I check out the appliance to see where the "pockets" of space are at the back and mount my socket accordingly

My limited experience of appliances suggests those pockets of space are never the same on replacements. Ovens generally tend to have that space at the top, but with other appliances all bets are off.

I've noticed that up here sparks tend to place unswitched sockets behind sink units, when dishwasher or washing machine are fitted next to them. Something in my brain doesn't like that, but it's much more accessible than being placed behind the appliance and also deals with the issue of space.
 
I've noticed that up here sparks tend to place unswitched sockets behind sink units, when dishwasher or washing machine are fitted next to them. Something in my brain doesn't like that, but it's much more accessible than being placed behind the appliance and also deals with the issue of space.
Are they used with a separate isolating switch (e.g. grid switch or similar) that is accessible?
 
My limited experience of appliances suggests those pockets of space are never the same on replacements. Ovens generally tend to have that space at the top, but with other appliances all bets are off.

I've noticed that up here sparks tend to place unswitched sockets behind sink units, when dishwasher or washing machine are fitted next to them. Something in my brain doesn't like that, but it's much more accessible than being placed behind the appliance and also deals with the issue of space.
Yes. Traditionally that's the way we all did it. Many people have concerns about them been under the sink but it actually is not a problem in my view. Have never experienced a problem with it. Those who complain about a socket under the sink often ignore the fact that half the D. B, s in this this country are located in the hallway, downstairs by the frontdoor, with the upstairs bathroom directly overhead. Now that makes, me feel incomfortable
 
Kitchen designers would pass out at the thought of any such gap. You could certainly specify it in your own home, but most customers aren't going to accept it.
I think "Kitchen Designers" is an oxymoron, the tray space is a very useful way or storing trays without taking up room in the kitchen cupboards, in a UK standard Kitchen space is at a premium with White goods as most house's do not have Utility rooms, so I feel it is an acceptable solution to the socket accessibility problem most perceive they have.
 
IMHO... that 'tray space' idea looks bl00dy awful ! I'd never design that into my kitchen and if a 'kitchen designer' offered that... he'd be asked to leave immediately. The only way something like that could work for me, is if that space was all lined out, with a door, including a removable rear panel that would cover all those sockets. However most kitchens are so very very tight on space, it's highly unlikely to happen. I wired up a new kitchen last week... massive space, like 15m x 5m... but even then, the units were all cut down to make them fit. Every spare millimeter was used.
 
Must admit I'm not keen on the big gap for the sockets. Would make a nicely fitted kitchen look a bit rough. Although practically it's a good solution. I'd much rather have a socket in an adjacent unit.
 
I don't consider putting a socket behind a washing machine or whatever as being readily accessible, or in an adjacent cupboard full of crockery, but then I like the tray space and so does the major user of the kitchen, who is the one that counts after all.
 
Must admit I'm not keen on the big gap for the sockets. Would make a nicely fitted kitchen look a bit rough. Although practically it's a good solution. I'd much rather have a socket in an adjacent unit.
A nicely fitted kitchen would not have the white goods on display, they would use integrated units, then I would agree the tray space should have a narrow door or sliding unit which would make the sockets readily accessible.
 
Yes. Traditionally that's the way we all did it. Many people have concerns about them been under the sink but it actually is not a problem in my view. Have never experienced a problem with it. Those who complain about a socket under the sink often ignore the fact that half the D. B, s in this this country are located in the hallway, downstairs by the frontdoor, with the upstairs bathroom directly overhead. Now that makes, me feel incomfortable

I've dealt with a few leaks over the years, but never once at the plumbing under a kitchen sink. It's more the idea of such placement that doesn't sit well with me, rather than the reality, but it's certainly a lot more accessible than behind the adjacent appliance.
 
I think "Kitchen Designers" is an oxymoron, the tray space is a very useful way or storing trays without taking up room in the kitchen cupboards, in a UK standard Kitchen space is at a premium with White goods as most house's do not have Utility rooms, so I feel it is an acceptable solution to the socket accessibility problem most perceive they have.

Do people still have trays in their homes? Must admit it's not something we have in this house - on the rare occasion a guest ventures through the door, we put their food directly onto a plate.

It's easy to make flippant comments about the work that others do, but I'd imagine that the people who design kitchens are up against it from every angle. Customers want the nicest looking kitchen that money can buy, but often wont want to pay more than the prices on display in B&Q. I'd imagine practicality and aesthetics are afforded equal priority by their customers, so eveything must look perfect, while affording Tardis like spaces behind each door.

A nicely fitted kitchen would not have the white goods on display, they would use integrated units, then I would agree the tray space should have a narrow door or sliding unit which would make the sockets readily accessible.

This is what I imagine most designers would aim for, provided the budget allows - everything fully integrated, except an oven for obvious reasons and other appliances ideally situated elsewhere. Although not much can be done to hide a washer or dryer if they're fitted in a kitchen

The idea of an enclosed tray space is certainly much better than a visible gap, but I can't see most people wanting it.


Ultimately I'm happy to move an appliance to access its plug as generally it'll be coming out for repair or replacement. For all other occasions I use the means of isolation fitted above worktop level.
 
I seem to have started a bit of a discussion on this point, with nicebutdim and his sycophant DPG, but as you become more mature you find that trays are a convenient thing to use when you wish to eat in comfort in the living room watching the TV, the children have moved out and you do what you want rather than panda to your wants or your aspiration's for them.

Flippant or not my comment re "Kitchen Designers" being an oxymoron was a genuine comment, the design of a kitchen layout is one of the easiest things to do, if you can draw and work to scale, if that is too difficult for some then so be it, be in awe of those that can.

If guests venture into our house then obviously the full regalia is used in the dinning room with the best cutlery, candelabra with the Villeroy Bosch china, but it happens less and less as your peers die off.
 
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I seem to have started a bit of a discussion on this point, with nicebutdim and his sycophant DPG, but as you become more mature you find that trays are a convenient thing to use when you wish to eat in comfort in the living room watching the TV, the children have moved out and you do what you want rather than panda to your wants or your aspiration's for them.

Flippant or not my comment re "Kitchen Designers" being an oxymoron was a genuine comment, the design of a kitchen layout is one of the easiest things to do, if you can draw and work to scale, if that is too difficult for some then so be it, be in ore of those that can.

Mike, I've resisted making some comments previously, and will endeavour to keep doing the same, despite your obvious feeling that you are more knowledgable about everything than other people.

You really don't like it when people make negative comments about your posts do you?


Also I see you're jealous about me liking other people's posts rather than yours. Makes me chuckle that, thanks.

Oh, and it's 'pander', not bloody panda!
 

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