WIRING A BOAT - what regulations do apply??

[mikex79]

hi
I need to wire a narrowboat, lighting circuits, socket circuits, floor heating, cooker. The boat if partly wired and at the moment has a diesel run generator only, i need to add a few more circuits and make a connection for the external power supply. What are the regulations that apply to this kind of locations as it is not included in 17th edition wiring regulations. What qualification do I need to do the job and dertify it?

 

[Mac]

hi
I need to wire a narrowboat, lighting circuits, socket circuits, floor heating, cooker. The boat if partly wired and at the moment has a diesel run generator only, i need to add a few more circuits and make a connection for the external power supply. What are the regulations that apply to this kind of locations as it is not included in 17th edition wiring regulations. What qualification do I need to do the job and dertify it?

Don't think you'll find anything in the 17th about narrowboats.Haven't got a clue myself but someone maybe able to help later on.Take a look at this link thou.
Low voltage electrics for marine, motorhome and caravan use

 

[baldsparkies]

I would tend to take giudance from regulations refering to marine installations, and caravan parks, at least you will be in the right ball park so to speak.

 

[Andy Smith]

I would tend to take giudance from regulations refering to marine installations, and caravan parks, at least you will be in the right ball park so to speak.

Good starting place i would say

Ps remeber funny sort of earth water!

 

[lister]

get yourself a copy of the boat safety specs (there is a small section on electrical requirements - noting major) as it will need to be inspected ans pass before they will issue your boat safety certificate.
you pay to have it inspected you dont need to issue any paperwork or have any special qualifications, these inspectors are uasally really helpfull with the do's and dont's (like for instance all cables must be flex no twin and earth allowed etc etc) ask about at your local marina etc

 

[sparkswillfly]

i think cables have to be multi strand due to the movements of the structure on water . this is was in a boat safty spec not bs7671

 

[Graeme Harrold]

Check with the BMF code of conduct, and from memory boats are not regulated untill they are 20m or longer (or commercial). If its a commercial hire, check with the requirements of the insurance company. Its been a while, but there are a few extra considerations when installing on a boat..............Get the earth PD wrong, and the engine/prop could corrode much faster!!!!!!

 

[mikex79]

just to let everybody know this boat is going to be a living acommodation for one familly and is not going to be used for a commercial purposes.does it make any difference?

 

[baldsparkies]

From an insurance veiwpoint you may find you need to comply with wiring to BS6883 seeing as its an on ship install being used as living accomodation.commercial or otherwise so check that one out.

Also, how are you placed for the supply in relation to max demand ? and what earthing arrangements will you be using ?

 

[mikex79]

and what earthing arrangements will you be using ?

yeah that's a good question - what earthing arrangement will i be using - no idea though :-(

 

[castlon11]

yeah that's a good question - what earthing arrangement will i be using - no idea though :-(

Just take the boat out into international waters and wire it however you want, then when the boat has returned it is in compliance with regulations. As long as the boat was in accordance with regulation at the place and date the wiring was done any default would just go down on the test as code 4.

C A U T I O N

(Do not take this advice into consideration as is a joke just making a statement on how to step around the regulations and technicalities of an installation.)

 

[mikex79]

the boat will be mainlz based in camden town - london and there will be children on it so it must be safe

 

[castlon11]

yeah sorry mate was only joking.i have no idea.

 

[empress]

for wiring a boat you would be better to use tinned copper wire/flex in marine enviroment as bare insulated copper goes black and corrosion wicks up the cable at an alrmimg rate.
your biggest worry is galvanic corrosion of the boats fittings ie seacocks ,anodes etc something to do with stray earth currents when connected to a shore supply..
depends on boat construction material .
fitting a marine galvanic isolator can prevent this and they are not expensive.
requires disconnection of all poles including neutral on individual socket points..
finally the big red book 709.411.4 page 193 says you cannot connect a boat to a TNCS supply .
hope that helps
elfyn

 

[chrisvalford]

A little late now but. The main difference between domestic and marine wiring are the cable types, enclosures, and circuit layout. Basically no ring main, no P.V.C or twin and earth, limited supply current, i.p. rated enclosures everywhere with proper glands and properly supported cable runs.
The boat has a diesel generator, so your circuit design should comply with and not exceed the generators spec., if you are using a shore supply as well you need to isolate the generator before connecting the shore supply. Your shore supply will most likely be rated at 16A or 32A, and where their cables are generally long will have the maximum volt drop. You must have a double pole isolator and R.C.D in both your generator and shore supply circuits. Use butyl rubber cable preferably tinned, with crimp connectors (and ferrules where needed) and label/identify each cable at both ends. Use I.P. rated metal enclosures fitted with good quality glands, ensure you have a drip bend and clip the cables properly. Keep your A.C, D.C. and electronics circuits separate. There is a B.S. book similar to the 16th edition for marine electrics, I found one in my college library (very rare). But for small craft all you need to be in the U.K. is a "competent person", which means you should design, install, inspect and test the installation using the best standards you can find?

 

[boatelectrician]

Hi, This is an old thread now but Boats like the one discussed, need to be wired to ISO 10133 (DC) and ISO 13297 (AC).
contact me for more info.

 

[Knobhead]

Contact http://www.britishwaterways.co.uk/ they will have to inspect it for it’s licence.

Be warned they are strict!

 

[boatelectrician]

Hi...
The website you need is Boat Safety Scheme - Home
This is the organisation that examines boats on behalf of the navigation authorities for inland waterways which BW is just part.
I know because I am one of the examiners.
We are strict BUT the requirements are basic and not up to current standards.
eg. at the moment a boat with red and black single 230v wires in the same conduit as red and black 12v would pass!!!!
New boats should comply with the Recreational Craft Directive with ref to the ISO's i mentioned earlier.

 

[badgered1]

'finally the big red book 709.411.4 page 193 says you cannot connect a boat to a TNCS supply'

now in the big green book it doesn't say that (pg 226), just says you cannot connect the PME to any metalwork.

So in the case of a narrowboat and a TNCS supply I can connect line and PEN but the hull should be Earthed otherwise ie earth rod?

In which case a galvanic isolator would be redundant, or if used would comply with the regs until there was a fault, when it then makes the earth connection.... but would then contravene this reg.

Or should the whole system just not be PME?

 

[boatelectrician]

There was some new stuff out there about marina supplies.
but the boat itself should comply with the iso's mentioned earlier.
How it is then connected to the shore power is then the subject of the red and green books. And from what I have read, the boat "earth" CPC must not be connected to any suppliers earth. I'll dig out some more info.

 

[Clive P]

This is my first post , so please be Gentle. I wired a friends Canalboat some time ago and for me it was a steep learning curve. I fitted a Stirling 3kVA inverter, sockets lighting, pumps heating , Nav Lights etc. To start me off I used a book called Marine Electrical and Electronics Bible by John C Payne. ( absolutely brilliant ). The two boards I used were Merlin Gerin, and used the MCB's for both the DC and AC; as the MG ones can be downrated for DC. I believe MG now do DC Breakers. For the wiring I used multi-strand YY cable as its very flexible ( but not quite the temperature rating of HR ), most boats are run in 6491X, even at Boatyards; problems waiting to happen! In the engine compartment I used Galvanised tray and Kopex to run all the circuits, keeps it very tidy.
For the Regulations, especially colour coding of cables refer to ISO 101339 ( small craft DC Installations ) and ISO 13297 ( small craft AC Installations ). If I can help in any way , let me know.

 

[badgered1]

For the wiring I used multi-strand YY cable as its very flexible ( but not quite the temperature rating of HR ), most boats are run in 6491X, even at Boatyards; problems waiting to happen!

Hi just curious, in what way problems waiting to happen?

 

[MarkieSparkie]

'finally the big red book 709.411.4 page 193 says you cannot connect a boat to a TNCS supply'

now in the big green book it doesn't say that (pg 226), just says you cannot connect the PME to any metalwork.

So in the case of a narrowboat and a TNCS supply I can connect line and PEN but the hull should be Earthed otherwise ie earth rod?

In which case a galvanic isolator would be redundant, or if used would comply with the regs until there was a fault, when it then makes the earth connection.... but would then contravene this reg.

Or should the whole system just not be PME?

The ESQCR:2002, Amt:2009, Regulation 9.4 states The distributor shall not connect his combined neutral and protective conductor to any metalwork in a boat or caravan. This is because if the supply neutral was to become disconnected from earth, the metalwork of the boat or caravan could rise to Line potential, assuming they are not independently earthed. Persons entering or exiting the boat or caravan would be at risk of electric shock.

 

[Clive P]

Like yourselves I am an Installation Electrician, but was asked by a friend to wire his Canal boat. With reference to using single strand 6491X, I see this as a retrograde step as it is only single core unlike YY cable or HR cable which is Double insulated. Single core cable with no protection can chafe on metalwork due to age and vibration and in some cases where I have seen solid core can break at terminations , and unless it is 105 degree rated is susceptible to temperature.
With reference to the Earthing, you should always fit an isolating Transformer or Zinc Saver in the Earth from your shore supply. I will admit this is more for Cathodic protection than it is for Earth Isolation. Also your ac Earth from the shore supply should be bonded together with the Battery Negatives to the hull of the Boat.

 

[badgered1]

Ah hadn't thought of it as single core,

I just use arctic.

I get all the regs, recreational craft directive is the one to comply with, tags to BS stuff etc

What I'm pondering over is the earthing of the hull to a shore connection.... after a GI if fitted, a simple plug in connection.

The BMEA and RCD etc require the earth and 12v -ve to be bonded at one point on the hull.

BGB says the PME cannot connect to any metalwork (narrowboat hull)

So what does one do with the earth?

 

[MarkieSparkie]

Ah hadn't thought of it as single core,

I just use arctic.

I get all the regs, recreational craft directive is the one to comply with, tags to BS stuff etc

What I'm pondering over is the earthing of the hull to a shore connection.... after a GI if fitted, a simple plug in connection.

The BMEA and RCD etc require the earth and 12v -ve to be bonded at one point on the hull.

BGB says the PME cannot connect to any metalwork (narrowboat hull)

So what does one do with the earth?

It is normal installation practice to convert the incoming Marina TN-C-S (PME) supply to TT earthing at the RCD protected berthing sockets. So when the vessel connects to the shore supply via a standard hook-up cable any vessel metalwork is connected to the local TT earth electrode and isolated from the PME earth terminal. Unless you have an isolating transformer fitted on board the vessel to isolate the electrical system on your craft from the shore supply system (or other method of galvanic isolation), corrosion through electrolysis could damage the vessel or adjacent craft. BS 7671:2008, Amt 1:2011, Section 709.

 

[badgered1]

That makes sense.

So lets say the narrowboat stops at one of the many ramshackle boatyards with leads trailing from the sheds.

Said boater would assume its a PME supply he is plugging in to, would we recommend separating the earth and using his own earth spike...... doubling as a mooring pin perhaps?

 

[MarkieSparkie]

Any supply offered to a boater for hook-up should NOT be PME. The hook-up service provider has a duty of care under the H&S legislation to ensure the service he/she is providing does not put the customer at risk.

 

[Clive P]

MarkieSparkie is on the ball there. You should have an Isolating Transformer fitted to alleviate any problems with the type of supply at the Boatyard. There will always be an Earth connection returning from the boat , but this will be segregated from your 'own' ac installation.
The regulations also state that you must be able to identify Reversed Polarity, Power Available and Power On at the point of entry of the ac supply onto the boat from the shore supply, this is quite easy to do with a couple of indicating lamps. By doing this you will be able to see that polarity is correct when visiting different Boatyards.
To recap , you should have your external supply earth segregated from your onboard Earth.