S

Simong69

My Tain of t
Im doing a remedial Contract for a Local Council following up on problems highlighted by Test engineers.
My Job Is to fix broken sockets, Pendants, change consumer Units, Add lighting crcuits to RCBOs etc etc I then follow this up with a minor works cert.

All good so far.

Ive read up on the dreaded borrow neutral Posts and realised ive been doing it all wrong, when trying to rectify the problem.
My Train of thought was to drop all the pendants and test all the neutrals until I found a link between the downstairs lighting to the upstairs lighting, split that link thus splitting the lighting into 2 circuits problem solved, there are 2 neutrals 2 lives and 2 earths at the CU, I now realise this is not the case, wasted a few hours to find that out.
Typically the domestic dwelling has 5 lights on the down stairs circuit including the upstairs landing light, and then 4 lights upstairs.
The Houses in the main are all wired in 2 plate using double insulated singles, that council have specified that all future rewires to any properties needing re-wires are to be wired 2 plate .... !! (I understand why although I don't agree)

I understand tp a point how the borrowed neutral works, I don't fully understand it but slowly getting my head round it.

Rewiring the Lighting is not an option, doubling up on the RCBO is also not an option therefore my question is how do I fix this problem quickly and easily causing as little disruption to the tenants as possible.
Im in some pretty rough housing areas so the less time I spend in these properties and get moving to my next job is beneficial to me.

I get that you guys are pretty bored now of answering these questions but any help or advice would be great, and thank you in advance
 
Probably find someone has nicked the neutral on the landing 2 way
 
Why do they insist on a 2 plate system?
Surely 3 plate or L+N to every switch would be better..
You say there is 2 lots of L+N at the board, have you identified where these legs go to?
 
so is it a simple case of getting a neutral from the downstairs landing light to the upstairs landing light ? what happens to the exsisting neutrals at the upstairs light ??
 
Why do they insist on a 2 plate system?
Surely 3 plate or L+N to every switch would be better..
You say there is 2 lots of L+N at the board, have you identified where these legs go to?

Because it's wired in insulated and PVC sheathed singles, live to all the switches neutral to all the lights and switched lives between apart from 2 ways.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
sorry for the slow responses my posts have to be verified

The Council insist on 2 plate for the sole reason tenants sometimes put up their own light fittings therefore the tenant is only dealing with a live and neutral, because the tenant doesn't understand that a sw wire in needed they tend to just put all Blues and browns together, which means constant call outs for the council on light issues
 
If theres only i neutral for all lights , you have 2 choices , either install another neutral or put all lights on the same MCB , preferably the first choice really..

If there are 2 neutrals then as already said trace where they go and see if you can separate them , chances are the 2 way has the borowed neutral..
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
sorry for the slow responses my posts have to be verified

The Council insist on 2 plate for the sole reason tenants sometimes put up their own light fittings therefore the tenant is only dealing with a live and neutral, because the tenant doesn't understand that a sw wire in needed they tend to just put all Blues and browns together, which means constant call outs for the council on light issues

good one-some of the "posh" houses have "cousins" that do this-seen it a lot
 
Because it's wired in insulated and PVC sheathed singles, live to all the switches neutral to all the lights and switched lives between apart from 2 ways.

Obviously.. I wasn't asking how, I was asking why.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
sorry for the slow responses my posts have to be verified

The Council insist on 2 plate for the sole reason tenants sometimes put up their own light fittings therefore the tenant is only dealing with a live and neutral, because the tenant doesn't understand that a sw wire in needed they tend to just put all Blues and browns together, which means constant call outs for the council on light issues

sensible... Unusual for a council
 

Attachments

  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    54.4 KB · Views: 225
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
Many people find the universe confusing - it's not.

That's a sweeping statement to make, perhaps you're in the wrong profession, maybe the worlds foremost physicist, so you can put right all the research theory's of the likes of Prof Stephen Hawking etc!! lol!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 people
Thanks for using my thread to vent personal comments at one another, really helpful that ........

Anyways another day at work, borrowed neutral sorted fixed and understood

This thread is now dead lol
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
9 times out of 10 it the upstairs landing light that is the problem. It simple
really old school sparks would take a neurtral off up stairs lighting circult and the light it self (landing light) would be feed from down stair circult.
 
9 times out of 10 it the upstairs landing light that is the problem. It simple
really old school sparks would take a neurtral off up stairs lighting circult and the light it self (landing light) would be feed from down stair circult.

Yes, because the can't be arsed to run triple, t&e and just bridge the perm off downstairs lighting circuit.
 
Many people find the universe confusing - it's not.
What qualifies you to say that? the universe is the most understood thing in existence, we know more about Jesus than we do about space and the solar system, so please humour us, stick up your point of view regarding this laughable comment.
 
What qualifies you to say that? the universe is the most understood thing in existence, we know more about Jesus than we do about space and the solar system, so please humour us, stick up your point of view regarding this laughable comment.

Have you missed a mis out there, Mike ????:confused5:
 
it didn't used to be confusing. the earth was flat. if you flew too close to the sun, your wings melted. the moon was made of cheese.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people

Similar threads

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Electrician Courses Green Electrical Goods PCB Way Electric Underfloor Heating Electrician Courses Heating 2 Go Electrician Workwear Supplier
These Official Forum Sponsors May Provide Discounts to Regular Forum Members - If you would like to sponsor us then CLICK HERE and post a thread with who you are, and we'll send you some stats etc

Advert

Daily, weekly or monthly email

Thread Information

Title
Yet another Borrowed Neutral Problem .............. sorry
Prefix
Forum
UK Electrical Forum
Start date
Last reply date
Replies
19

Advert

Thread statistics

Created
Simong69,
Last reply from
telectrix,
Replies
19
Views
2,482

Advert