To sample, or not to sample ...

[Duncan Bennett]

Hi All

I'd be glad of some advice on this one:

I received an email from a company I do some work for asking me to submit a quote for the ten year inspection of an address which comprises three blocks of flats -each with four floors.

Each block has a distribution board for the communal lighting. Each flat has its own metered supply.

Would it be best to quote for testing each flat along with the communal DB, or should I quote to test and certificate for the communal services, and then maybe one sample flat from each floor?

There are 4 x flats on each floor and the buildings are circa 25 years old.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Tioraidh

Dunc

 

[Andy78]

Totally depends. How long ago was the last test ? do you have the papers from the last test ? Any results or remarks on that paperwork give cause for concern ?

If you are going to sample you should be sampling a percentage of each DB, not a selection of DBs. I have no idea how you could justify missing out 75% of the dwellings with no test and inspection.

 

[Duncan Bennett]

I should say that the company asking for the quote have just taken over the factoring of these buildings. I think the takeover process from the last factors was a tad acrimonious. They haven't supplied - or referred to - any test certificates, and I think they might not have all the changeover paperwork sorted out just yet.

 

[Andy78]

Nothing to stop you quoting for differing amounts of sampling then, with 100% recommended as there are no previous records. You say they are doing their 10 year inspection and test ? it should be 5 years max for rental property.. .this could also add weight to a 100% test and inspect.

See section 3.8.4 in GN3 as a guide to setting sampling.

 

[Pete999]

If there is no evidence of any previous tests, I personally would quote per flat and per Communal DB times it by the number of flats and communal DBs, explain to the client your reasoning and take it from there.

 

[telectrix]

deffo inspect and test each flat as a separate entity. each flat can then have sampling applied according to what condition it's in on 1st sight.

 

[dingledong]

I agree with tell
Give them a price per flat rather than a price for everything it will look better

 

[telectrix]

i'm sampling now. hobgoblin, strange, it's taken 3 pints and i'm still not sure if i like it. have to try another 3.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

The properties need to be viewed before making this kind of decision.
If it appears that no alterations have been made, and the electrical equipment looks to be in good repair, then sampling is an option.
However I would always prefer to fully test something like a flat or house, as it should not take that long.
The fact that there is a number of flats to test, shouldn't make any odds.

 

[Duncan Bennett]

Nothing to stop you quoting for differing amounts of sampling then, with 100% recommended as there are no previous records. You say they are doing their 10 year inspection and test ? it should be 5 years max for rental property.. .this could also add weight to a 100% test and inspect.

See section 3.8.4 in GN3 as a guide to setting sampling.

Thanks, Andy. I should have said that the individual flats are all owned by the tenants. It's a kind of (but not exclusively) retiree's place; the comunal areas are looked after by a factor, but the flats themselves are owned.

 

[Duncan Bennett]

Cheers, all As advised, I think I'll separate it out: price for the communal board and then a quote for one flat which they can then multiply out.

Thanks for taking the time to comment

 

[Andy78]

Thanks, Andy. I should have said that the individual flats are all owned by the tenants. It's a kind of (but not exclusively) retiree's place; the comunal areas are looked after by a factor, but the flats themselves are owned.

I'm not sure how this will work then. You can obviously quote for testing all the communal distribution either at a full test or sampled rate as discussed. If the flats are privately owned then surely you would not be able to access them for testing or indeed be able to enter into any contract with anyone but the owner. Does the site management have responsibility for testing the flats as well as the communal areas ?

 

[Duncan Bennett]

I'm not sure how this will work then. You can obviously quote for testing all the communal distribution either at a full test or sampled rate as discussed. If the flats are privately owned then surely you would not be able to access them for testing or indeed be able to enter into any contract with anyone but the owner. Does the site management have responsibility for testing the flats as well as the communal areas ?

Cheers, Andy.

I believe the residents committee are going to be asked whether they want to have their individual flats tested at the end of the week. Hence the reason I want to have the prices nestled in the factors pocket for reference

 

[Engineer54]

I'd get back in touch with this management company and ask for a breakdown of the schedule of works that is to be carried out on these 4 blocks of flats. It may well be that part of the owners lease conditions requires that periodic testing of electrical installations are performed. But you won't know anything until you ASK!!

As usual we get relevant pease meal information, drip by drip!!

 

[Duncan Bennett]

"As usual we get relevant pease meal information, drip by drip!!"

And, that's how I - and no doubt others - also get the information. There was NO schedule of work given. The email read:

Topic line, 10 year inspection of (address).

Dear Sir,

Quotations are now being taken in respect of the above. Please submit to (office email address) by Friday 19th September.

<ends>

Engineer, I have no doubt that your area of work runs like a well oiled clock, but I find that in my own line of domestic electrics, very little runs that way; schedules are quite often non existent and are 'assembled' through conversations with a client who as no initial idea what they actually require/want; sometimes completely wrong, often open to various interpretations. I'm self employed and I NEED the work, so i'm not going to accuse my client of being 'piece meal' with his request; I'm going to say yes sir no sir three bags full sir and, having tapped the experience of the good people on this forum, will be better placed to meet the client and eek out the relevant information in a cosy, non confrontational way - probably over an afternoon pint.

Unlike all the other posts i have received on this topic, I sense a certain fractious, confrontational and haughty edge to your words. And not for the first time. Please save your self all the exasperation you have with my posts and just don't respond. Their content is generally as unhelpful as they are unsolicited. I'll resist the temptation to copy your double exclamation marks.

 

[Engineer54]

"As usual we get relevant pease meal information, drip by drip!!"

And, that's how I - and no doubt others - also get the information. There was NO schedule of work given. The email read:

Topic line, 10 year inspection of (address).

Dear Sir,

Quotations are now being taken in respect of the above. Please submit to (office email address) by Friday 19th September.

<ends>

Engineer, I have no doubt that your area of work runs like a well oiled clock, but I find that in my own line of domestic electrics, very little runs that way; schedules are quite often non existent and are 'assembled' through conversations with a client who as no initial idea what they actually require/want; sometimes completely wrong, often open to various interpretations. I'm self employed and I NEED the work, so i'm not going to accuse my client of being 'piece meal' with his request; I'm going to say yes sir no sir three bags full sir and, having tapped the experience of the good people on this forum, will be better placed to meet the client and eek out the relevant information in a cosy, non confrontational way - probably over an afternoon pint.

Unlike all the other posts i have received on this topic, I sense a certain fractious, confrontational and haughty edge to your words. And not for the first time. Please save your self all the exasperation you have with my posts and just don't respond. Their content is generally as unhelpful as they are unsolicited. I'll resist the temptation to copy your double exclamation marks.

You can take me as you find me chum, it matters little to me. I respond to threads/posts as everyone else does here. If you check, my post on this thread was in reply to your original post, which said nothing about the flats being privately owned or anything about a residents committee meeting taking place. They were both posted while i was replying to the original post, so i was lightly miffed that i had wasted my time as indeed the previous other posters had.... I, as i'm sure most, if not all the other posters assumed these were rented Housing Association properties or the like, NOT privately owned properties....

So what do you have to say for posts 10 and 13, you didn't have that information when you started the thread??

I think you'll find that most here are fed-up with OP's drip feeding relevant information pertinent to the advise being sought as they go along. Threads end up twice as long, but more than anything else it's bloody annoying!!

 

[Duncan Bennett]

You can take me as you find me chum, it matters little to me. I respond to threads/posts as everyone else does here. If you check, my post on this thread was in reply to your original post, which said nothing about the flats being privately owned or anything about a residents committee meeting taking place. They were both posted while i was replying to the original post, so i was lightly miffed that i had wasted my time as indeed the previous other posters had.... I, as i'm sure most, if not all the other posters assumed these were rented Housing Association properties or the like, NOT privately owned properties....

So what do you have to say for posts 10 and 13, you didn't have that information when you started the thread??

I think you'll find that most here are fed-up with OP's drip feeding relevant information pertinent to the advise being sought as they go along. Threads end up twice as long, but more than anything else it's bloody annoying!!

Engineer, post #10 refers to the period of time between inspections - NOT whether they should be undertaken or not. It was answered by Andy, most amiably in post #12 and has no bearing on the initial question. Why so picky? Your abject consternation is only belittled by everyone else's objective conversation.

As for post #13, what does it matter whether the place is managed by a residents committee, a property factor or a coven of witches. It has no bearing on the initial question. I wanted some advice and, other than your own responses - which I sense are not based on any experience of 'workaday' sparking in the private sector - I was offered plenty of good advice from the cordial responses I received from others, and from which I have determined my approach to the matter. I think that's how it should be. I took nothing from your posts, other than a sense of your angst. I repeat, save yourself the bother of manifesting that angst in typing out unhelpful, pointless words - PLEASE don't respond to any of my posts.

And as for;

"I think you'll find that most here are fed-up with OP's drip feeding relevant information pertinent to the advise being sought as they go along. Threads end up twice as long, but more than anything else it's bloody annoying!!"

I think you'll find on re-reading the thread that nobody else - let alone most - expressed being fed-up. Just you.

 

[Farmelectrics]

£20 a circut

 

[Engineer54]

Engineer, post #10 refers to the period of time between inspections - NOT whether they should be undertaken or not. It was answered by Andy, most amiably in post #12 and has no bearing on the initial question. Why so picky? Your abject consternation is only belittled by everyone else's objective conversation.

Of course it has pertinent implications there's a big difference between rented accommodation (which is how the original thread read) and privately owned property, eg access to inspect being a major aspect. As for post #13, what does it matter whether the place is managed by a residents committee, a property factor or a coven of witches. It has no bearing on the initial question. I wanted some advice and, other than your own responses - which I sense are not based on any experience of 'workaday' sparking in the private sector - I was offered plenty of good advice from the cordial responses I received from others, and from which I have determined my approach to the matter. I think that's how it should be. I took nothing from your posts, other than a sense of your angst. I repeat, save yourself the bother of manifesting that angst in typing out unhelpful, pointless words - PLEASE don't respond to any of my posts.

You obviously have no experience of residents committees then! lol!!
You got the best advise you could have received chum, trying to price a job that you have no idea of the scope of works involved in just plain crazy..... There could also be 2 or 3 different flat layouts so you would need to know if the same amount of circuits are common or not to all

Oh, and i can't see any management company, that manages properties of this size not having a scobby doo about the scope of works they are putting out to tender!!

And as for;

"I think you'll find that most here are fed-up with OP's drip feeding relevant information pertinent to the advise being sought as they go along. Threads end up twice as long, but more than anything else it's bloody annoying!!"

I think you'll find on re-reading the thread that nobody else - let alone most - expressed being fed-up. Just you.

Best ask all the other members then in another thread, if they are pee'd of with the amount of threads where the relevant information comes in dribs and draps...

I respond to any general forum threads or posts that i see fit to....

 

[Duncan Bennett]

Best ask all the other members then in another thread, if they are pee'd of with the amount of threads where the relevant information comes in dribs and draps...

I respond to any general forum threads or posts that i see fit to....

Engineer, I have no truck with you, why are you so tetchy? The sparks who answered my posts - in an insightful, kindly, conversational and ultimately helpful manner - have helped me form my approach to the factors requesting the work. It's sorted now. Your posts are now doing no more than adding negatively weighted, unnecessary column inches here. As you said yourself: "Threads end up twice as long, but more than anything else it's bloody annoying!!" Just Chill my friend, let it go, if you have nothing constructive to say then just say nothing.