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  • They have about 14 moving parts, promising to have a life spans far, far greater than ICE cars;
The new solid state Toyota battery:
  • The prototype cells can fully charge in 15 minutes;
  • Capacity loss of just 10% over 30 years;
  • Millions of recharges before any degradation;
  • Fully recharged in less than 15 minutes;
  • Half the size and weight of existing batteries for the same storage;
  • The price will be roughly the same as current batteries - in effect half the price.
They are promising lifespans? That's great but promises don't prove anything.

As you say, they are prototype batteries, not finished products, just prototypes. A lot of prototypes are nothing like their finished product if they even progress that far at all.

These are lots of predictions of what they 'will be' or 'will do' but you don't offer any evidence, just statements that appear to be straight out of a marketing department.
 
They are complex machines with moving parts, they will need some form of servicing or maintainence.
Machines with moving parts that don't receive proper maintainence fail.

Suggesting that electric vehicles don't need any servicing is nonsense.
EVs are simple. Very simple. A battery set, an electric motor and some solid-state control. EVs do not need an annual service. No oil, spark plugs or filters to change. No calibration. No host of other devices to fail either. The MOT will pick up any problems like wheel bearing and steering wear.

Some makers recommend you take them in for a walk around by a mechanic. That is more to drum up business for the dealer than what the car needs.
 
EVs are simple. Very simple. A battery set, an electric motor and some solid-state control. EVs do not need an annual service. No oil, spark plugs or filters to change.
No friction brakes? No hydraulics to operate them? No mechanical steering linkages? No suspension? No bodywork to rust?

There are many other things that cars have that fail the MOT that are utterly unrelated to the engine.

I know, had more than one car fail to the point of being scrapped on rust damage to the underside and running gear when otherwise it was fine :(
 
EVs are simple. Very simple. A battery set, an electric motor and some solid-state control. EVs do not need an annual service. No oil, spark plugs or filters to change. No calibration. No host of other devices to fail either. The MOT will pick up any problems like wheel bearing and steering wear.

Some makers recommend you take them in for a walk around by a mechanic. That is more to drum up business for the dealer than what the car needs.

I did not say that they need an annual service, I said that they will need maintainence or servicing.
As you have pointed out they still have bearings, steering components which all wear and require servicing or maintainence.
They will presumably still have brakes, lights, air conditioning, power steering, and the whole host of driver/passenger comforts and extras that normal cars do? These all can and do go wrong, need service/matinence.

Manufacturers have been pushing longer and longer service intervals for years at the detriment to the longevity of machines.
'maintainence free' and 'sealed for life' mechanisms are driving this culture of obsolesence where parts become disposable rather than repairable.
 
They are promising lifespans? That's great but promises don't prove anything.

As you say, they are prototype batteries, not finished products, just prototypes. A lot of prototypes are nothing like their finished product if they even progress that far at all.

These are lots of predictions of what they 'will be' or 'will do' but you don't offer any evidence, just statements that appear to be straight out of a marketing department.
If you had been keeping pace, you would know that Toyota were to announce the new solid state battery at the Tokyo Olympics to gain maximum publicity. Production in five years. Covid scuppered it. So they announced it a few weeks back in a low key way.

Toyota have finished the R&D stage. The technology is proven. It is now in the stage to get it manufactured in a mass scale. That means machines designed and made to manufacture the batteries and the factories set up.

This overspills to the domestic market in cheaper Powerwall types of batteries.
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No friction brakes? No hydraulics to operate them? No mechanical steering linkages? No suspension? No bodywork to rust?

There are many other things that cars have that fail the MOT that are utterly unrelated to the engine.

I know, had more than one car fail to the point of being scrapped on rust damage to the underside and running gear when otherwise it was fine :(
The MOT will pick up any of those faults. Braking is mainly magnetic. Toyota have sold few brake pads for the Prius, as they rarely operate. Friction brakes are just back up. Any problems on the cars will energise a warning light. So an MOT and any problems between the driver will be alerted. No annual service needed. They will need fixing if and when things go wrong. That is not servicing. Nothing to service.
 
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If you had been keeping pace, you would know that Toyota were to announce the new solid state battery at the Tokyo Olympics to gain maximum publicity. Production in five years. Covid scuppered it. So they announced it a few weeks back in a low key way.

Toyota have finished the R&D stage. The technology is proven. It is now in the stage to get it manufactured in a mass scale. That means machines designed and made to manufacture the batteries and the factories set up.

This overspills to the domestic market in cheaper Powerwall types of batteries.

Manufacturers announcing something doesn't mean they have it finished and ready to go to market, it just means that the marketing department wants to announce it.

If production isn't expected for another 5 years then it isn't a finished product ready for market is it!
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The MOT will pick up any of those faults. Braking is mainly magnetic. Toyota have sold few brake pads for the Prius, as they rarely operate. Friction brakes are just back up. Any problems on the cars will energise a warning light. So an MOT and any problems between the driver will be alerted. No annual service needed.

Servicing will be needed, no probably not annually, but then it isn't needed annually for any other vehicle. Servicing is recommended at set mileage intervals for vehicles.

Off the rope of my head some items which are included in standard vehicle services which will be the same for EVs are:
Check and replace brake fluid, replace pollen filters, check and replace power steering fluid, check and top up washer fluid, check and replace wiper blades.

I can get the service book for my car and we can go through everything that will need servicing exactly the same in an EV if you like?

A vehicle service is not just an oil and filter change, and it will still be required.
 
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Manufacturers announcing something doesn't mean they have it finished and ready to go to market, it just means that the marketing department wants to announce it.

If production isn't expected for another 5 years then it isn't a finished product ready for market is it!
It is out of the labs, the R&D side. The tech is sorted. It is now given over to the men who will get it manufactured en mass. Very simple. Toyota stated that it will 2025 on the market. I am just repeating what I have already stated.

Tesla claim one million miles on their new batteries, available next year. They will announce on their big launch Battery Day in a week or two. This is not solid state though, but a good advance for sure.

.

The point is that matters on batteries are changing fast. Billions is being spent in R&D on batteries around the world. It is coming to fruition.
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davesparks, no servicing needed on EVs. None. Only fixing when they rarely go wrong.

Just like most electrical products. Servicing an EV is like trying to service an immersion heater.
 
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These battery advances will cascade down to the domestic & commercial markets in Powerwall types of batteries. So expect to be involved in more EV charger points and Powerwall battery fitting with associated inverters, etc.
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What about the brakes? Brake fluid? Pollen filters? Air con? Washer fluid? Tyres? Body corrosion? Hinges? Locks?

They all are part of standard service procedures on vehicles and are still part of EVs.
Washer fluid? Are you kidding?
All of those do not need an annual service. The onboard computer will tell the driver if and when they need attention.
 
Washer fluid? Are you kidding?
All of those do not need an annual service. The onboard computer will tell the driver if and when they need attention.

No I'm not kidding, that will be found on the service list for most vehicles.
Whilst the service may not be annually, which is something you introduced after your initial statement that no servicing is required, servicing will still be required.

It's a complex machine, it will need servicing in order to maintain peak performance and get the best lifespan, they all do.

Manufacturers, and marketing people, will claim that no servicing is required, but that's just bull to make thro products sound good and encourage the culture of obsolescence. If manufacturers can convince you to never have a vehicle serviced then they will be cashing in when your vehicle fails due to lack of servicing.
 
All mechanical and electrical sytems require some degree of maintenance. Some components may be sealed and "maintenance free", which means throw away and replace complete assembly.

Battery prices fluctate according to market prices for their raw materials.

If Toyota have produced a battery which has proven capacity loss of just 10% over 30 years, that will be an incredible leap forward from current mass produced technology.


I'm not opposed to EVs at all, but having looked (several times over the years) at the numbers I can not come close to making the case for driving one myself.

I'm also not "fond" of owning any type of vehicle as they're a significant drain on income. If there was no need to run a vehicle in order to earn a living and ferry kids around, I'd be happy to get rid of mine and cut my expenditure by a not inconsiderable amount.

I'm happy for anyone to own an EV, but would suggest they look at all angles before making, what is, a significant investment,
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No friction brakes? No hydraulics to operate them? No mechanical steering linkages? No suspension? No bodywork to rust?


I'm really keen to know how their wheels turn on fixed hubs.


In all seriousness I would buy an EV tomorrow if the financial argument came anywhere close to viable. Maybe EVs are great in cities, but below are my requirements which I'd welcome anyone to make a recommendation on:

5 seat estate car.
Daily mileage varies from 20-300 miles.
Live in a hilly area and often tow reasonably heavy loads.

Current vehicle costs around £300 per year in servicing and maintenance and I'll expect one major repair at around £1000 during my ownership, which will probably be 8-10 years. Average mpg during my ownership is showing as 57.7 and costs £30-£40 each week to fuel. It's 5 years old and bought recently at 80k miles for £4k.

Previous vehicle was very similar and crunching all the numbers I've never managed to find any way of running an EV for similar annual costs - not even in the same ball park.
 
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Don't forget that realistically to own an EV you need a driveway.
Or like the guy round the corner from me you have to run a lead out of your window, over the pavement and into your EV at the side of the road.
He also 'reserves' the part of the street directly in front of his house with pallets when he goes out in the EV otherwise someone else will park there and he won't be able to charge it at all.

If I had an EV I'd have to run a lead out of a window and across our neighbours garden into the communal parking area (again if I've managed to get in to it and haven't ended up parking on the street down the road somewhere)

In a few weeks I'm moving to a top floor flat,

Plus anyone, like me, who is renting likely won't be able to have a charger installed, or even an outdoor socket.

So yeah, EVs are great for those people who own houses with driveways.

A far better reduction in pollution happened when everyone started working from home in March than I think EVs will ever bring about.
 
EVs are approaching the price of ICE cars. Once parity, then they will just take off. Look at the Tony Seba video.

I have two EV chargers on the pavement on my road. Fast chargers are everywhere. Shell are having one fast charger at every petrol station, with a schedule in place to phase out petrol pumps, as EVs take over. One station in London is now to be all EV charging.

I agree, cars are a pain. But! The advances in battery technology will cascade to homes. We will all see the changes if not in EVs, because we may not own one.
 
I have two EV chargers on the pavement on my road. Fast chargers are everywhere. Shell are having one fast charger at every petrol station, with a schedule in place to phase out petrol pumps, as EVs take over. One station in London is now to be all EV charging.

Everywhere is a bit of an overstatement, there's a handful in a couple of car parks near here, but nowhere near enough to cater for a mass move to EVs and certainly not everywhere!

Petrol pumps won't be phased out for a very long time.

Yes EV chargers are mor prevalent in London, but that is to be expected and can't be taken as representative of the whole country.
 
Everywhere is a bit of an overstatement, there's a handful in a couple of car parks near here, but nowhere near enough to cater for a mass move to EVs and certainly not everywhere!

Petrol pumps won't be phased out for a very long time.

Yes EV chargers are mor prevalent in London, but that is to be expected and can't be taken as representative of the whole country.
Wise up. When EVs start to take over the chargers will be everywhere. They will be installed very quickly. Did you look at the Tony Seba video? The mass take up of ICE cars in 10 years? Unless you look at the vid it is best not comment on EVs.
 
Youtube is great source of entertainment but by nature is not the best place to get factual information.

The debate on this thread seems to be coming from two directions.
The current state of EV's and the charging infrastructure with a dose of realism and scepticism of marketing blurb. vs where it is hoped EV's and charging infrastructure will be in the future which is by nature driven by marketing blurb and hype.

I'm not sure anyone disagrees that EV's are a big part of the future but the reality for most of us is that it's a long way away and the current infrastructure is woefully inadequate.

I'd love to have EV's instead of fossil fuel burning vehicles but reality won't let me. I look forward to the day when I do. :)

There are some very real environmental, social and safety concerns over the mining of the materials required to build EV's which need to be addressed and that will only happen if the people who buy EV's show concern over it, in the same way we are now showing concern over the damage fossil fuels cause.
 
Wonder if this Tony Seba can let me know the lottery numbers for next weekend too.

I can’t think of even 1 EV charger in a public place within 5 miles of my house. Probably 100k people live in that area.
 

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