Can someone give advice?

[CaptainAhab]

So I have a 30ma Fuse that goes from the Mains out to a light outside in an old toilet room. This connection goes from a fused light switch over the wall into another outbuilding room that has yet another switch with a fuse on it. This switch with the fuse in the second building is connected directly with a receptacle next to it. The Receptacle powers a Tall Freezer, Washing Machine, and Tumble Dryer. However, with obvious reasons and the way it is wired, the connection trips the breaker often as I'm sure it's trying to pull too much power where there isn't any. How would this be wired and why? Is this up to code, or do I need to have this looked at? Minor detail about the fuse box as we have taken out a 30ma for the electric shower we used to have. A few pictures: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...879054916491042878/PXL_20210822_172600630.jpg
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...879054933087887400/PXL_20210822_172622103.jpg https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...879054956206915594/PXL_20210822_172649682.jpg https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...879054972224946256/PXL_20210822_172652648.jpg https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...879054982974963712/PXL_20210822_172703450.jpg https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...879054993980817458/PXL_20210822_172705701.jpg

 

[Roy1010]

That is a 40 amp breaker, so I imagine you have an intermittent earth fault as opposed to an overload.

 

[timhoward]

That is a 40 amp breaker, so I imagine you have an earth fault as opposed to an overload.

I think he meant he no longer has a shower so that B40 rcbo isn't actually used.

It look as sounds as though the B16 breaker is feeding a radial circuit that is powering the light and the appliances.

Depending on the age and efficiency of the appliances it is entirely plausible the 16A rcbo would trip due to cumulative load. It is also possible that an earth fault is causing it.
The bottom line is that either way you need a local electrician to confirm the present circuit design and check for earth leakage.
From the photos it looks like it wouldn't take a great deal of work to provide a higher capacity circuit more suitable for the loading, also with more sockets.

 

[CaptainAhab]

That is a 40 amp breaker, so I imagine you have an intermittent earth fault as opposed to an overload.

Apologies as I know little about UK electrics, we're not allowed to wire things in this way in the US. I'm just a bit confused as to why they have fuses in switches in the first place, can you explain this?
Basically either the earth isn't hooked up properly in a box or it's missing it's sleeving?

 

[CaptainAhab]

I think he meant he no longer has a shower so that B40 rcbo isn't actually used.

It look as sounds as though the B16 breaker is feeding a radial circuit that is powering the light and the appliances.

Depending on the age and efficiency of the appliances it is entirely plausible the 16A rcbo would trip due to cumulative load. It is also possible that an earth fault is causing it.
The bottom line is that either way you need a local electrician to confirm the present circuit design and check for earth leakage.
From the photos it looks like it wouldn't take a great deal of work to provide a higher capacity circuit more suitable for the loading, also with more sockets.

Exactly, I know the power in the outbuilding isn't adequate and I've actually just gotten rid of a few 10+ year old appliances and replaced them with brand new ones, so it's pulling even less power than before. My other concern was whether or not the breaker itself has weakend due to being tripped several times over the last year. Ideally I wanted a socket per unit in that room as these extension cords are dangerous to use for those amounts of power. I just mainly want to know enough info to not get ripped off before I call someone to work on it.

 

[timhoward]

We are guessing a bit, but if you have brand new appliances, their power consumption will probably be much lower, and I'd be a bit more surprised if they are overloading the circuit. It's still possible.

The device in the consumer unit marked B16 is protecting against overload, but is also looking for an in-balance of current on the live and neutral conductors as in fault conditions electricity can 'leak' to earth.
As you have brand new appliances, if this was happening it would more likely be an issue with the fixed wiring, and could be caused by water ingress / moisture too, especially in the light fitting. It's usually possible to rule this out quite quickly using test equipment.

Are you able to indicate where in the UK you are (roughly)? We may be able to help you find someone.

Otherwise I'd be expecting someone to ramp test and check insulation resistance of the circuit, inspect the current wiring and lighting, look at the appliances and work out the total load, and if required either change the wiring to a 4mm radial or convert the circuit into a loop and in both cases change the breaker to be a B32 thus doubling capacity.

 

[CaptainAhab]

We are guessing a bit, but if you have brand new appliances, their power consumption will probably be much lower, and I'd be a bit more surprised if they are overloading the circuit. It's still possible.

The device in the consumer unit marked B16 is protecting against overload, but is also looking for an in-balance of current on the live and neutral conductors as in fault conditions electricity can 'leak' to earth.
As you have brand new appliances, if this was happening it would more likely be an issue with the fixed wiring, and could be caused by water ingress / moisture too, especially in the light fitting. It's usually possible to rule this out quite quickly using test equipment.

Are you able to indicate where in the UK you are (roughly)? We may be able to help you find someone.

Otherwise I'd be expecting someone to ramp test and check insulation resistance of the circuit, inspect the current wiring and lighting, look at the appliances and work out the total load, and if required either change the wiring to a 4mm radial or convert the circuit into a loop and in both cases change the breaker to be a B32 thus doubling capacity.

When we moved into this house the roof had recently been replaced in the outhouse because it had been leaking. Upon painting the plywood before moving everything into the room I did notice there was a lot of flash through in the paint, some was due to it not being wood paint but it was more than that. I'm thinking it could be water leaking in the ceiling. I also have a window in this room and leave it open when the dryer is running as it's a condenser. But at first it seemed that it was tripping due to everything running in there as I had an old Double Fridge, old chest freezer, Very old washer and the new dryer. We're in Newcastle.

 

[UNG]

We're in Newcastle.

Which Newcastle?

 

[CaptainAhab]

Which Newcastle?

Newcastle upon Tyne

 

[timhoward]

That's an area where no one instantly springs to mind. Closest I can recall is @ruston but that might not be very near, Northumberland is a fair size county.

 

[ruston]

That's an area where no one instantly springs to mind. Closest I can recall is @ruston but that might not be very near, Northumberland is a fair size county.

Thanks for the thought. I am not far from Newcastle , but I am retired now .
There is another spark on here from Newcastle but I can not remember his user name.

 

[littlespark]

I’m an hour north of Newcastle, but it’s a long way for some investigation work.

how far away from the house is the outbuilding? Length of cable might be important. Also, does it ONLY trip when everything is on? Or only when a specific machine is on? I know you said everything is new. Does it ALWAYS trip when everything is on?

It looks as though everything was installed properly… rather than a diy throw-in
Perhaps originally there was only one socket?

What about the outside light? Modern LED or 500W halogen floodlight? That could add quite a bit.

If it is a case of over current, and other factors allow, then the 16A could be changed to 20A, otherwise I’m thinking a damaged cable when the roof was repaired?

 

[CaptainAhab]

I’m an hour north of Newcastle, but it’s a long way for some investigation work.

how far away from the house is the outbuilding? Length of cable might be important. Also, does it ONLY trip when everything is on? Or only when a specific machine is on? I know you said everything is new. Does it ALWAYS trip when everything is on?

It looks as though everything was installed properly… rather than a diy throw-in
Perhaps originally there was only one socket?

What about the outside light? Modern LED or 500W halogen floodlight? That could add quite a bit.

If it is a case of over current, and other factors allow, then the 16A could be changed to 20A, otherwise I’m thinking a damaged cable when the roof was repaired?

It doesn't always trip, I have to run the dryer and washer together for a couple hours before it goes. The light is a 4W LED, and the outbuilding is about 5 meters away from the house, however the wire travels through the roof of the outhouse structure that is connected to the main building. Washing machine is a Bosch 10kg. And the dryer is a 9kg condensor as it used to have to sit in places where I couldn't get a hose out the window or brick. I have had an electrician look at the dryer just to be sure it wasn't faulty. I've had instances where the extension cord has melted the insulation off the hot and neutral and they've fused together and arced, resulting in me having to cut it off and rewire it. And I've had to replace the fuses on several occasions in the extension cord plug. It's a heavy duty extension cord for outdoor use. The roof itself I'm not sure exactly when it was replaced.

 

[ipf]

I've had instances where the extension cord has melted the insulation off the hot and neutral and they've fused together and arced, resulting in me having to cut it off and rewire it. And I've had to replace the fuses on several occasions in the extension cord plug. It's a heavy duty extension cord for outdoor use. The roof itself I'm not sure exactly when it was replaced.

That sounds nasty and could be heavy overload or leakage, even.
It needs urgent inspection by someone with the required ability.

''I've had instances where the extension cord has melted the insulation off the hot and neutral and they've fused together and arced, resulting in me having to cut it off and rewire it''.

That is quite frightening. If it's 'frying' why replace it to do the same? Crazy!
Find out what the 'extension cord' is feeding......exactly. Is it large enough to take the load?

There are way too many 'ifs and buts' for anyone to make a reasonable diagnosis without having personal access.
Get someone in, urgently.

 

[CaptainAhab]

I’m an hour north of Newcastle, but it’s a long way for some investigation work.

how far away from the house is the outbuilding? Length of cable might be important. Also, does it ONLY trip when everything is on? Or only when a specific machine is on? I know you said everything is new. Does it ALWAYS trip when everything is on?

It looks as though everything was installed properly… rather than a diy throw-in
Perhaps originally there was only one socket?

What about the outside light? Modern LED or 500W halogen floodlight? That could add quite a bit.

If it is a case of over current, and other factors allow, then the 16A could be changed to 20A, otherwise I’m thinking a damaged cable when the roof was repaired?

The outbuilding is no further than 5 meters as the roof is attached to the house. It doesn't always trip but it definitely starts to heat up when everything is running, I.E. Tumble Dryer, Washing Machine and Freezer. After about 2 cycles it will trip, the plug will be very hot, I am unsure about the socket as the plug is too hot to remove so I just reset it and leave the machines off other than the freezer till it cools. 2 cycles on the washer and dryer can be anywhere from 2 hours to 5 hours depending on the settings I am washing everything and whether it's towels or not. Some days however I can run it all day and nothing happens with everything going. The outside light is a 4Watt LED lamp. I am not 100% sure when they redid the roof but it's been re-done before we moved in.

My best guess was it was simply too much power to draw off the breaker and a thicker wire needed to be installed and replaced as well as the breaker itself for more amperage. But like I've said prior, everything runs off a heavy duty outdoor extension cord, has covers on it to protect from water.

Apologies, I've gotten to the desktop finally today and realized my message did actually go through from my phone.

 

[littlespark]

So, how many wall sockets have you got in there? just the one?
and everything is plugged into a 4 way extension lead?

I think you need to plan how you use the appliances.... not have the washing machine and dryer on at the same time, for example... until you get something sorted properly.

Those extension leads, especially cheap ones, are not designed to take the full load for any length of time.