church em lighting

[dunc1979]

hi all hope someone can help

i'm studying my nvq currently working on a church .I was under the impression that all buildings had to have emergency lighting but the spark i'm working for has said the church don't want any

so my question is

is it a legal requirement or do chuches have special rules

all help gratefully appreciated cheers

 

[Leesparkykent]

I think a risk assessment should be conducted under the Regulatory Reform Order.

 

[dunc1979]

thanks for the reply

is it possible then that even though the building is open to the public it wouldnt need em lighting

cheers

 

[Leesparkykent]

thanks for the reply

is it possible then that even though the building is open to the public it wouldnt need em lighting

cheers

This would be one of the reasons for having the risk assessment carried out.

 

[dunc1979]

thanks again all the info is a bit confusing no one seems to want to put one definitive thing

 

[Leesparkykent]

The fire safety guides state that fire is only one of many safety issues with which management must concern them to minimise the risk of injury or death to staff or the public. Many of the measures needed impact upon other safety issues and vice versa. For emergency lighting this is particularly true of the risks that can occur when occupants are suddenly plunged into darkness in the event of a supply failure, so this consideration should be taken into account in the design of the systems installed.

The effectiveness of the escape routes can be very much affected by the provision of correct emergency lighting which is properly maintained and so as a part of the overall fire precautions risk assessment, the emergency lighting installation(s) or lack of must be examined.

 

[Engineer54]

I can't personally think of any type of Public use building that is often used by the public in the hours of darkness not requiring EM lighting of one form or another. I'm pretty sure any risk assessment would confirm this too. Failing that, use some of that common sense that's rarely used these days!! .....

 

[tazz]

As stated in post 2, A risk assessment, under The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) 2005, is required for all public and commercial buildings. This is mandatory by law with no exceptions, and includes churches, places of worship and public gatherings. This even includes outdoor events, such as garden faytes. The problems that always occur in churches, is the lack of knowledge by building control and Fire officers. If its not a new construct building, their lost, and unhelpful.
The Church of England (London) have approached this issue to comply, and have written a full assessment which their churches should follow..Fire Safety - Church Buildings - Diocesan Advisory Committee - Diocesan Committees - Who we are - The Diocese of Southwark
Hope this helps

 

[ruston]

As has also been said, common sense too. Lots of people , sudden darkness; not really needing much thinking about in my opinion.

 

[Engineer54]

As stated in post 2, A risk assessment, under The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) 2005, is required for all public and commercial buildings. This is mandatory by law with no exceptions, and includes churches, places of worship and public gatherings. This even includes outdoor events, such as garden faytes. The problems that always occur in churches, is the lack of knowledge by building control and Fire officers. If its not a new construct building, their lost, and unhelpful.
The Church of England (London) have approached this issue to comply, and have written a full assessment which their churches should follow..Fire Safety - Church Buildings - Diocesan Advisory Committee - Diocesan Committees - Who we are - The Diocese of Southwark
Hope this helps

Have you ever known of a place of worship (church) to be exempted from needing one form of EM lighting or another??

 

[tazz]

Most churches we have come across have little or no emergency lighting. And most that do, have not had them serviced in years.
As to conducting risk assessment, well that also is left to chance.
I`m dealing with a church at the moment in North London, who insist that they do not require any em lighting in the main church area because there are exit signs. Capacity of the church is 300. They also have built a social club and 2 classroom Sunday school on the side of the church. And believe that Aico domestic smoke alarms satisfy their own risk assessment, as do the signage......I very hard to convince the non believers (My new name for church committees)..

 

[rattlehead85]

I have also had previous experience regarding this issue. I landed a church re-wire in Putney and quoted to install sufficient EL to the main church area and corridors leading to all exit doors and toilet areas. I was soon told that the diocese had had a risk assessment carried out with the result being that an EL scheme was not required and an unnecessary cost. I found this very hard to believe considering that the premises was open to the general public who largely would be unfamiliar with the layout and escape routes in the event of power failure. Also the fact that the corridor areas where dimly lit at best and would be totally black if the power failed as no natural light was offered.
At the end of the contract i compiled a covering letter which i had signed by the diocese in which i set out why an EL scheme was required from the risk assessment i had completed. Dare i say this document was hastily condemned to the bonfire the minute i left.

 

[Engineer54]

I have also had previous experience regarding this issue. I landed a church re-wire in Putney and quoted to install sufficient EL to the main church area and corridors leading to all exit doors and toilet areas. I was soon told that the diocese had had a risk assessment carried out with the result being that an EL scheme was not required and an unnecessary cost. I found this very hard to believe considering that the premises was open to the general public who largely would be unfamiliar with the layout and escape routes in the event of power failure. Also the fact that the corridor areas where dimly lit at best and would be totally black if the power failed as no natural light was offered.
At the end of the contract i compiled a covering letter which i had signed by the diocese in which i set out why an EL scheme was required from the risk assessment i had completed. Dare i say this document was hastily condemned to the bonfire the minute i left.

I'd of asked to see a copy of that risk assessment, because methinks they were being ungodly and lying through their teeth!!

I can't believe that any place of worship that is regularly used during the hours of darkness can be exempt from requiring some form of EM lighting. I'm surprised that the church insurers haven't picked up on this, as they tend to have pretty high minimal standards for electrical installations for churches and the like!!

 

[dunc1979]

thanks for all the help everyone

 

[Knobhead]

As part of my other work I regularly attended church. Only one I can think of one that had no EM lighting, I mentioned it to the minister and a week later got the call “when can you start installing it?” It was a Wesleyan Free Chapel so not encumbered by a diocese. I passed the job on to a friend, I don’t do that sort of work.

So not all churches are backward.

They certainly weren’t, they asked me to become an elder, I’m agnostic!

 

[mark80]

Theres probably a passage somewhere in the bible that says 'the light of god shall provide safe egress passage in the event of unholy power cuts'.

 

[pottsy10]

Bit late to the post but I had a quick look at the CIBSE Lighting Guide 13- Places of worship which was released last year and found this.

"Emergency lighting may be required in places of worship wherever there is
deemed to be a risk to the safety, health or welfare of staff and the public, should
the normal lighting fail. Failure of the normal lighting can cause three different
types of hazard, depending on the nature of the building. For all buildings, a
hazard exists if people have to evacuate the building in darkness. Emergency
lighting should be provided to allow people to safely and quickly leave the
building. The extent and nature of the emergency lighting required in places
of worship is determined by the size and complexity of the building. Detailed
guidance on emergency lighting is given in chapter 4 of this guide and SLL
Lighting Guide 12: Emergency lighting design guide (SLL, 2004)."


So I would gather from that if after a risk assessment by a fire officer the EM is deemed necessary for a Fire Certificate it would obviously be required.