cost effective options to heat a small temporary space.

[speedystu]

Hello

I hope everyone and their families are ok at this time.
During my own self-build (mostly diy)
I have to build a small living space (in a garage) two-story for myself and my family of 5 for 1- 2 years before I finish the full-size house. it is temporary but will be approx 30sqm meters downstairs with a concrete floor and upstairs 20sqm two small spaces on rafters and plywood. total of approx 50 sqm. it will be a very nice looking Georgian inspired build and a garage that matches that. It is in the countryside.

I have a general engineering and family building background.

What I do have is a sewage system, water and electricity (220v grid).

My questions is, what is the best way to organise cost-effective and efficient heat for underfloor heating and hot water for lots of showers and hot water in a few sinks.
I want to be able to have full-timer and online and phone control capabilities.

I don't love radiators myself and underfloor seems to way to go downstairs I currently use a coal stove to heat large parts of a house, I could do this again but I am open to solutions using electric heaters immersions and solar any other machines and devices I don't know about. Heat pumps likely not be cost-effective. I will be adding full insulation to the space. The solution needs to be cost-effective and use off the shelf items. Currently, weekly costs for electricity and coal is approx 50-60 pound These are the running costs. I want to beat that if I can. I don't think I want oil.

Any advice or ideas appreciated. I will be using registered plumbers and electricians where needed.

It would be great to know some of the options out there.

Keep safe all and thank you.


I don't love radiators myself and underfloor seems to way to go downstairs I currently use a coal stove to heat large parts of a house, I could do this again but I am open to solutions using electric heaters immersions and solar any other machines and devices I don't know about. Heat pumps with likely not be cost-effective. I will be adding full insulation to the space. The solution needs to be cost-effective and use off the shelf items. Currently, weekly costs for electricity and coal is





Any advice or ideas appreciated.



Keep safe all and thank you.

 

[telectrix]

i'd stick with solid fuel preferably a multifuel stove feeding radiators. being in the country sure you'll be able to get wood for burning at a low cost. electric ufh is inefficient for room heating. it's good to warm your toes when you get out of the bath, bit that's about it.

 

[Mike Johnson]

The most efficient is an Air Source Heat Pump combined with Solar Panels, running water pipe UFH, possibly an expensive outlay in the first instance, but overall will save hundreds in the long run.

Multi fuel burning is fine when you are young, cutting splitting and carrying logs soon become a major chore especially if you are getting on in life, I hate our Rayburn, will only take split 225mm logs, but love the Jotul which will take 500mm logs as delivered.

 

[pc1966]

What I have seen working well in the UK for underfloor heating is an electrically operated heat pump, as you get several times the heat out compared to the power you put in. Generally though they are not very good for getting high temperatures for shower, etc.

Another thing that I have seen used here in the days before photovoltaic solar power was common is a similar heat-pump arrangement but using water radiators on the roof for the low grade heat source.

I can't comment on the cost-effectiveness of them as you would need to get the price for installing the heat pump and work out your power saving to get an idea of the pay-back time. You ought to include your expected future power use as it may go up a bit.

For full hot water for showers, etc, then your choice is probably to use electric immersion heater and have the option for heating the water from any stove / fire / etc/ you might have. If you get photovoltaic power then you are not paying for grid electric during any (clear) day, but without subsidy they may not be not cost-effective either depending on your electric cost and pay-back period.

Finally be aware that most photovoltaic inverters (DC from panel to AC for grid use) are not designed to run without grid power being present, so if you suffer from a power cut they go off line as well. I imagine you can get ones capable of operating as an independent source, but I don't know the details.

 

[speedystu]

The most efficient is an Air Source Heat Pump combined with Solar Panels, running water pipe UFH, possibly an expensive outlay in the first instance, but overall will save hundreds in the long run.

Multi fuel burning is fine when you are young, cutting splitting and carrying logs soon become a major chore especially if you are getting on in life, I hate our Rayburn, will only take split 225mm logs, but love the Jotul which will take 500mm logs as delivered.

Agree with the soldidwood or coal it's great but an extra job on a job, in this instance I am open to using water heaters and immersions, solar , heat pumps etc seems very expensive for initial outlay for a temporary living . arrangement. I will have full air to water heat pump but not in this building.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Heat pumps are not impossibly to move, so could be a saving in the long run.

 

[speedystu]

Heat pumps are not impossibly to move, so could be a saving in the long run.

Thank you, on that note, I have looked in-depth at the price of new and a few used, is there a reliable used brand of heat pump with a good supply of spare parts I could look out for? in Ireland and the UK. That could work for this limited budget, I would only expect a few years out of it. It would solve my heating problem, what should I aim for hot water for sinks and shower?

 

[telectrix]

you could use instantaneous shower (9kW) and likewise instantaneous heater (3kW) for sink . high rate of consumption, but only on for short while.

 

[speedystu]

Thank you, I find the electric showers quite noisy what is a good brand of
instantaneous heater (3kW) for sink because ill look into that.

I think a big immersion heater or multiple would suit me better, I lived in an apartment years ago that seemed to have an unlimited supply of hot water and it was fairly silent, it was very nice would be cool to replicate.

Source URL: cost effective options to heat a small temporary space. - https://www.electriciansforums.net/threads/cost-effective-options-to-heat-a-small-temporary-space.184844/#post-1618206

 

[Zerax]

If I were in your shoes...
1) Insulate, insulate, insulate... even triple glazed ?
2) MVHR system to ensure that you're also properly ventilated.
3) Heat store solution driving UFH and DHW
4) Wood burning stove to heat the store
5) Evacuated solar tubes to heat the store

I'd be aiming at only using the wood burner and the solar tubes for all heating. Don't buy expensive logs... whatever you can get locally.

 

[plugsandsparks]

Can you clarify the nature of the building you want to heat for 1-2 years, is it going to be the garage when you have finished the house ? Do you want to have a heated garage for the future ? - The reason i ask is that for temp heating for such a short period of time why even think about UFH , you could easily manage with a combination of LPG free standing heaters, electric fan heaters and a large hot water cylinder heated via an immersion heater. It will be as cheap as chips and simple to set up and the running costs, albeit higher should not exceed the cost of more elaborate solutions like ASHP, solar and the like.

 

[Mike Johnson]

On the heat pump score I have a Fujitsu unit that's been cooling and heating my office for over twenty years without a hitch, so I don't know if spares area available as I have never needed any, but I know they are still made.

 

[speedystu]

On the heat pump score I have a Fujitsu unit that's been cooling and heating my office for over twenty years without a hitch, so I don't know if spares area available as I have never needed any, but I know that are still made.

Thanks that good to know, lots of random brands. That I am weary of. The more I look the heat pump is prob the best and most comfortable solution,I can make it cost effective if I can find a good used unit. just need to price out the hot water solution s and should be a lovely setup.Thanks all All good ideas.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Don't think it's been mentioned, but air source heat pumps are very efficient for heating water to about 40deg's this is ideal for UFH but useless for radiators, keep this in mind when looking for a solution, as someone above has mentioned one of the most efficient things you can do is insulate, but with that comes the problem of interstitial condensation and ventilation and that is a whole different ball game especially if using LPG as a heat source which is loaded with water.

 

[speedystu]

Don't think it's been mentioned, but air source heat pumps are very efficient for heating water to about 40deg's this is ideal for UFH but useless for radiators, keep this in mind when looking for a solution, as someone above has mentioned one of the most efficient things you can do is insulate, but with that comes the problem of interstitial condensation and ventilation and that is a whole different ball game especially if using LPG as a heat source which is loaded with water.

Thank you, noted all insulation is top priority along with ufh,

 

[Mike Johnson]

And don't forget to insulate the floor under the UFH.

 

[speedystu]

And don't forget to insulate the floor under the UFH.

Thanks all new to me but i look forward to the claims

 

[Zerax]

...but with that comes the problem of interstitial condensation and ventilation and that is a whole different ball game.

I mentioned earlier the MVHR system... Heat Recovery system... draws stale moist air out and brings fresh air in... in the middle is a heat exchanger so that all that heat energy is not wasted. About 85% efficient from memory. Some are designed to be on 24/7 or you can fire up when cooking or showering etc. etc..

 

[speedystu]

I mentioned earlier the MVHR system... Heat Recovery system... draws stale moist air out and brings fresh air in... in the middle is a heat exchanger so that all that heat energy is not wasted. About 85% efficient from memory. Some are designed to be on 24/7 or you can fire up when cooking or showering etc. etc..

Thank you! i will check costs for the MVHR but don't think my first build budget will allow but for the full house deffo the way to go , thank you! this is a temporary accommodation which will turn into a garage/workshop when were finished with it.

 

[Mike Johnson]

The problem I found with Mechanical Ventilation Heat Recovery Systems is that they don't just take stale air out of the building, but also the air that you have spent a lot of money heating, they need careful designing with the whole house ventilation system including humidity controlled vents above windows and the discipline of always closing the doors, which is much harder with children in the building or my wife. LOL