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Discuss EICR and RCD's. Is it a C2 or C3? in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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I really think we need to instil the virtues of RCD's when a member of the public asks a question rather than use strong terms about the electrician who has given a C2 for lack of RCD's. The electrician may well be wrong (perhaps not though, I have given C2's for lack of RCD's in certain situations) but rather than say he's trying to swindle you (which I doubt he is) which makes the customer focus on the electrician rather than the importance of the life saving RCD, we could say it may well be a C3 but would be a very, very good idea to get done.

Electrical installations should be designed correctly and RCDs only installed if required. This blanket RCD everything is both lazy design and leads customers up the garden path.
 
Could I ask if you are living in the property Victor or renting it out? The reason I ask is that you have said the last EICR was 5 years ago which makes me think you are renting it out.
As a landlord I would feel much happier with my tenants having RCD protection in their house especially if there are children who may enjoy sticking knives in toasters etc etc. :)

Why would a landlord be responsible for stupid children and lazy parents?
 
Some of our tenants have the mem boards fitted in 2005 or before . Ones where some is rcd protected other half isnt. When doing eicrs its a c3 that cables less than 50mm are not rcd protected and also c3 that lights arent rcd protected.
If however we want to do work on these circuits we either swap the mcb for an rcbo or move the mcb over to the rcd side.

As for an upfront rcd not being compliant...so you have a client with an old cartridge fuse board asking you to put an extra light on the circuit...not that big a job...you're going to honestly turn to them and say
Yeh well first im going to have to test the whole install as i have to change the whole board.
As i suspect dave from the pub would soon happily be used instead
 
Some of our tenants have the mem boards fitted in 2005 or before . Ones where some is rcd protected other half isnt. When doing eicrs its a c3 that cables less than 50mm are not rcd protected and also c3 that lights arent rcd protected.
If however we want to do work on these circuits we either swap the mcb for an rcbo or move the mcb over to the rcd side.

As for an upfront rcd not being compliant...so you have a client with an old cartridge fuse board asking you to put an extra light on the circuit...not that big a job...you're going to honestly turn to them and say
Yeh well first im going to have to test the whole install as i have to change the whole board.
As i suspect dave from the pub would soon happily be used instead

No, I would just install a separate RCD in a separate enclosure for just that circuit if the customer was going to be so tight.
 
As for an upfront rcd not being compliant...so you have a client with an old cartridge fuse board asking you to put an extra light on the circuit...not that big a job...you're going to honestly turn to them and say
Yeh well first im going to have to test the whole install as i have to change the whole board.
As i suspect dave from the pub would soon happily be used instead

It's not compliant with section 314. That's not up for debate at all.

Lighting circuits can have RCD protection added at any point on them to facilitate alterations.
 
Thank you all and everyone for their comments.
I won't comment whether I am a 'greedy landlord', I certainly
don't wish to be taken advantage off. Equally I don't think I take advantage of others.
Re-capping:-
1) 2nd Floor flat in a block built NEW in 1997.
2) Five years ago I have a satisfactory EICR.
3) Now I have a C2 (Potentially Dangerous). This rating can be changed as I have a quotation to "fit a new fuseboard to meet current regulation" - as written by the electrician. A new fuseboard solves my problem?

Logic question - Why is it a C2 if RCD's are NOT mandatory given it was satisfactory five years ago? Why wasn't it a C2 five years ago?

Thanks everyone again.
 
Thank you all and everyone for their comments.
I won't comment whether I am a 'greedy landlord', I certainly
don't wish to be taken advantage off. Equally I don't think I take advantage of others.
Re-capping:-
1) 2nd Floor flat in a block built NEW in 1997.
2) Five years ago I have a satisfactory EICR.
3) Now I have a C2 (Potentially Dangerous). This rating can be changed as I have a quotation to "fit a new fuseboard to meet current regulation" - as written by the electrician. A new fuseboard solves my problem?

Logic question - Why is it a C2 if RCD's are NOT mandatory given it was satisfactory five years ago? Why wasn't it a C2 five years ago?

Thanks everyone again.

Again, you need to clarify with the issuer of the report which specific issues the codes have been given for as a starting point.
 
What is the point of
Thank you all and everyone for their comments.
I won't comment whether I am a 'greedy landlord', I certainly
don't wish to be taken advantage off. Equally I don't think I take advantage of others.
Re-capping:-
1) 2nd Floor flat in a block built NEW in 1997.
2) Five years ago I have a satisfactory EICR.
3) Now I have a C2 (Potentially Dangerous). This rating can be changed as I have a quotation to "fit a new fuseboard to meet current regulation" - as written by the electrician. A new fuseboard solves my problem?

Logic question - Why is it a C2 if RCD's are NOT mandatory given it was satisfactory five years ago? Why wasn't it a C2 five years ago?

Thanks everyone again.

Because it is a matter of life and death. Some newer electricians won't take the chance. They tend to freak out when they see no RCD.

I suggest you be a good landlord and follow the recommendations on the EICR. It's there for a reason.
 
I have no problems about fitting RCD or spending money.
Indeed plans are being made to fit RCD's.
I am asking for quotations now.

My question is one of logic. Why now it's a C2 now and NOT a C2 five years ago. Assuming nothing has changed. The flat was built 22 years ago.
 
Coding is generally a matter of personal opinion, there are no cast in stone rules. Experienced people are likely to Code 3 it provided the existing circuit protection provides adequate fault protection. The statement should be one of fact that circuits do not have additional rcd protection but this does not necessarily mean the installation is not safe for continued use. Nothing has particularly changed in the last five years to warrant a change of Code but as I say it is personal judgement and inexperienced people often jump on the Code 2 bandwagon.
 
Thank you all and everyone for their comments.
I won't comment whether I am a 'greedy landlord', I certainly
don't wish to be taken advantage off. Equally I don't think I take advantage of others.
Re-capping:-
1) 2nd Floor flat in a block built NEW in 1997.
2) Five years ago I have a satisfactory EICR.
3) Now I have a C2 (Potentially Dangerous). This rating can be changed as I have a quotation to "fit a new fuseboard to meet current regulation" - as written by the electrician. A new fuseboard solves my problem?

Logic question - Why is it a C2 if RCD's are NOT mandatory given it was satisfactory five years ago? Why wasn't it a C2 five years ago?

Thanks everyone again.

The honest answer is we do not have enough info to make an informed response.

If you could scan and put the report on here it would help.
 
There is no requirement or change of regs that say an rcd should be installed in an existing installation if no additions or alterations have been or are being done.

However it may be nessissary if the nstalation has deteriorated and the fault currents have increased to an unacceptable level( unlikely), or the electrician has found something that the previous EICR inspector did not.
If it's the same inspector then I would be asking why they didn't find it last time.

That's the best answer I can give without more info.

The inspector needs to say specifically why it needs rcd protection.
 

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