extending cables

[wolfiehogan]

hi guys
recently ive came across jobs where the customer wants cables extended in switches and sockets as they are getting there outside walls dry lined for insulation, and am wondering what is the best practice to do this

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Re-wire.
Failing that permanent joints.

 

[prideofengland]

If the sockets/switches are flushed in you will need to fit extension boxes as well as extend the cables. Most electricians consider it good practice to crimp cables when extending them, however single strand cables such as 2.5 or 1.5 should not be crimped as crimps are only designed for multi stranded cables. Therefore extend using connector blocks, as long as you have fitted extension boxes the connections are still enclosed and accessable for maintenance. Hope this helps.

 

[SparkusMaximus]

however single strand cables such as 2.5 or 1.5 should not be crimped as crimps are only designed for multi stranded cables.

Is this correct, does it say this anywhere in the BRB? or is this just a good practice thing. I have never heard this and have seen lots of single core being crimped.

 

[nickblake]

extend the cables with wago connectors push fit end of problem maintainace free and so easy and take up less space than a connector block , as for crimping solid cables its not a problem as long as you use the correct tool ie ratchet crimper and not a hand crimper and the size selected is suitable for the job , i have confirmed this with my trade body too

 

[Deleted member 26818]

No it's not correct.
It depends on the manufactrer's instructions for use.

 

[gpz900jim]

wago type clips are the way to go, connector blocks are screw type fittings and as such need to be accessible for maikntenance

 

[prideofengland]

Is this correct, does it say this anywhere in the BRB? or is this just a good practice thing. I have never heard this and have seen lots of single core being crimped.

No not BRB mut manufacturers information, however as nickblake isproberbly right Wago would do it fine.

 

[topquark]

Yep, wago's are the way to go, love 'em!

 

[telectrix]

talking about wagos.i have just run out of helacons and need new stock. best deal on wagos, anybody know a good supplier at right price?

 

[topquark]

Didn't shop around last time, just got mine from TLC as I wanted them quick

I think someone posted that wagobox.com was still cheap, but don't quote me.

 

[Engineer54]

talking about wagos.i have just run out of helacons and need new stock. best deal on wagos, anybody know a good supplier at right price?

Helacons, are you talking about screw-it type connectors?? Won't allow them on Any of my projects. The times i've seen over tightened joints of this nature and one or more cores have snapped, ending up with a high resistance joint and subsequent over heating ....

 

[mechelec]

Is this correct, does it say this anywhere in the BRB? or is this just a good practice thing. I have never heard this and have seen lots of single core being crimped.

I was told years ago not to crimp single conductor cable. It seems that in recent years it has become standard practice. IMO it is bad engineering practice to crimp single core cables as the it distorts the copper and affects its CSA and mechanical strength. Stranded conductors form to the shape of the crimp much better.

 

[Phil]

talking about wagos.i have just run out of helacons and need new stock. best deal on wagos, anybody know a good supplier at right price?

get mine from the electric ctr about 7 quid a box

 

[Phil]

Helacons, are you talking about screw-it type connectors?? Won't allow them on Any of my projects. The times i've seen over tightened joints of this nature and one or more cores have snapped, ending up with a high resistance joint and subsequent over heating ....

helacons and the wagos are push fit type connections, a lot better than the screw type no over tightening

 

[Engineer54]

helacons and the wagos are push fit type connections, a lot better than the screw type no over tightening

Glad to hear that Phil, it was the name that got me, sounded like some kind of modern day Screw-it ...haha!! I agree the Wagos make a good solid connection in the right situations.... In CUs however, apart from those purpose made DIN rail Wago's i wouldn't like to see a bunch of those connectors, say extending the original cable ends after a replacement CU has been installed. I would always go for Crimped connections with appropriate coloured heat shrink sleeving.... much more professional and pleasing to the electrical eye !!! ...lol!!!

 

[nickblake]

Ive just used the dual to multistrand wagos for the first time when fitting light fittings brilliant how to the lighting manufacturer get away with such crap connectors ....... mmmm another point to bring to the attention of the ESC at elex lol

 

[Phil]

Ive just used the dual to multistrand wagos for the first time when fitting light fittings brilliant how to the lighting manufacturer get away with such crap connectors ....... mmmm another point to bring to the attention of the ESC at elex lol

which one you going to nick?

 

[nickblake]

Harrogate friday 11 th

 

[Phil]

Harrogate friday 11 th

sound will hopefully see you there

 

[nickblake]

yes will do im bringing my nephew he's in college at mo but works with me , so look out for a short stumpy guy ,with a monk patch glasses ,tash and in red , that will be me or some unfortunate sole that looks like me lol

 

[SimpleSimon]

yes will do im bringing my nephew he's in college at mo but works with me , so look out for a short stumpy guy ,with a monk patch glasses ,tash and in red , that will be me or some unfortunate sole that looks like me lol

Is it you or your tash that's red

 

[Knobhead]

I was told years ago not to crimp single conductor cable. It seems that in recent years it has become standard practice. IMO it is bad engineering practice to crimp single core cables as the it distorts the copper and affects its CSA and mechanical strength. Stranded conductors form to the shape of the crimp much better.

I’ll agree with you there! Single conductors can’t be crimped correctly!

 

[Engineer54]

I’ll agree with you there! Single conductors can’t be crimped correctly!

Of course they can!!! You need a decent ratchet Crimping tool that will deform the conductors core in the ferrule and of course decent crimps. Crimping tools that flatten, normally by hand pressure alone are only good for fine wire crimping operations, and totally useless with solid or multi stranded building wiring....

 

[mechelec]

Of course they can!!! You need a decent ratchet Crimping tool that will deform the conductors core in the ferrule and of course decent crimps. Crimping tools that flatten, normally by hand pressure alone are only good for fine wire crimping operations, and totally useless with solid or multi stranded building wiring....

well Nasa dont allow it (see below). neither do many other organisation eg MOD, railtrack and power station installations.
CRIMPED TERMINATIONS GENERAL REQUIREMENTS

 

[Engineer54]

If your talking about aircraft, space ships, and the like then in all honesty, you wouldn't find any solid cored cables, as they need a high degree of flexibility in wiring looms and terminations.
If your talking about general building wires then that is a completely different ball game, and not what there talking about in your example.

Don't get me wrong, i think it was a real bad day when our smaller sized, multi strand building wires was replaced by solid core conductors. There are many real disadvantages to using solid core over stranded, but correct crimping isn't one of them....

 

[malcolmsanford]

If your talking about aircraft, space ships, and the like then in all honesty, you wouldn't find any solid cored cables, as they need a high degree of flexibility in wiring looms and terminations.
If your talking about general building wires then that is a completely different ball game, and not what there talking about in your example.

Don't get me wrong, i think it was a real bad day when our smaller sized, multi strand building wires was replaced by solid core conductors. There are many real disadvantages to using solid core over stranded, but correct crimping isn't one of them....

I have to agree though a crimp on an installation would be the last resort I can't see there being any problem with it as long as it's done properly. I don't think I've ever had a bad test reading for a proper compression crimp to be honest, either solid or stranded.

Think it's like all jointing if you do it right it's there to stay.

 

[tonys]

I have to agree though a crimp on an installation would be the last resort I can't see there being any problem with it as long as it's done properly. I don't think I've ever had a bad test reading for a proper compression crimp to be honest, either solid or stranded.

Think it's like all jointing if you do it right it's there to stay.

Malc

There ain't nothing wrong with it, I have no problem with crimping cables because I'm competent in what I do. Other are just out and out lashers, but their attitudes and actions will keep me in work in the long run.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Unless it's a repair on a buried cable. or in this case extending tails in a socket then I'm a crimper. Everything else I'm afraid, adaptable box, din rail and Klippons man for extending cables.

Not even a Wago birds nest in a box man to be honest. Tony.

 

[tonys]

Malc

I was more generalising with extending cables in sockets, maybe light fittings and also you need to crimp an eyelet on onto a cpc at old metal box light switch and sockets boxes sometimes to be able to earth them.

 

[Engineer54]

I have to agree though a crimp on an installation would be the last resort I can't see there being any problem with it as long as it's done properly. I don't think I've ever had a bad test reading for a proper compression crimp to be honest, either solid or stranded.

Think it's like all jointing if you do it right it's there to stay.

Surely!! lol!! Crimping to extend cables is certainly a last resort, and mostly conducted only when situations beyond your control present themselves. As i said ...The right tool, and the right crimps and there is absolutly nothing wrong with crimped extensions etc...

 

[nickblake]

i have to admit i use wagos now so good and quick be great if they could do 3 way through wagos as for crimping right tool and good quality crimps i have tested then on solid and stranded and have found the solid cable will snap before the joint fails but im not going to argue ive asked the question on numerouse occasions to technical and during a site visit and there hasnt been a problem ,crimping /Aluminium cables then a differant story