Faulty Tridonic HF Ballasts?

[Westy-1]

Hey,

I've been a member for a few years and used this forum occasionally to answer or confirm electrical questions i've had in the past, but this is my first time posting my own thread.

We recently had a job for a customer to install two 2x58W Cat2 HF Modular Surface fittings (Ansell I think) with Tridonic HF ballasts. These fittings were replacing old track lights. This was in an office environment. These 2 lights and 2 new tracks (with LED GU10 lamps) are the only lights on the circuit breaker.

As soon as we powered on they both worked fine for about 10 minutes until one of them suddenly went off. 20 minutes later the next one went off. I turned the switch off and on again and the same thing happened. I tried this a few times throughout the day and the problem persisted.

I contacted the Rep for Tridonic and he said they have not had any problems. He supplied 2 new ballasts. I went up the next day in my own time (1:30hr drive), as the original job was a price. Before I swapped the ballasts I switched on the lights and they stayed on for well over an hour, but I changed them anyway just to be sure. As soon as I changed them the new ballasts had the exact same problem as before?!

I was wondering if anyone has experience with Tridonic especially the HF ballasts, I've heard a few tales in the wholesalers that they have a few faulty ones?

My other question is what should I do in this position? I still have 2 faulty fittings, Im basically working for free now and the only thing Tridonic seem to do is replace the ballasts, which isn't covering my costs?

I look forward to hear from you

Westy

 

[Marvo]

New generation ballasts are fairly intelligent and can be tricky. They shut down automatically on tube failure or low voltage, high voltage or overheating etc. Some also sense phase angle which will cause them to shut down if the tubes aren't compatible or if they're faulty.

If you purchased the complete fitting new I'd return the complete fittings for warranty assuming you've done the usual tests on the supply. If the job is far away I'd soak test the new fittings for a day in my workshop first as well.

 

[123]

I have heard of problems in the past with HF Ballasts, but in a milking parlour and the like.

I have had problems with LED and Fluorescent on same circuit or part of the circuit, but that was Switched Start Fluorescent, and it was the LED's that suffered from it.

 

[Marvo]

Another thought is are the fittings in a very cold place? The ballasts may monitor strike time and maybe also the output voltage requirement curve to maintain constant current so very cold tubes might also cause them to shut down.

 

[Westy-1]

New generation ballasts are fairly intelligent and can be tricky. They shut down automatically on tube failure or low voltage, high voltage or overheating etc. Some also sense phase angle which will cause them to shut down if the tubes aren't compatible or if they're faulty.

If you purchased the complete fitting new I'd return the complete fittings for warranty assuming you've done the usual tests on the supply. If the job is far away I'd soak test the new fittings for a day in my workshop first as well.

I appreciate your answer Marvo. This, however is not an isolated incident. If I did take the lights down it would leave the (already disgruntled) customer with no light for a day or two.

I suppose my main question is, are the manufacturers only responsible for replacing the faulty goods? What about all the extra time travelling and fitting?

With increased faulty gear nowadays this is becoming more of an occurrence for me and my company and can equate to thousands of pounds of lost hours over the financial year.

(The fittings are in a warm office environment)

 

[Welchyboy1]

Ive had loads of trouble with electronic hf ballasts, not just ones ive installed, but on jobs ive been called out to too where whole buildings have been fitted out with them, all different makes, and t8, 2D, t5 tubes

and loads have failed

probably all made in the same factory in china

also beware of fitting the cheap non-corrosive enclosed ones internally also, they overheat and the casings crack and hang off the ceiling, ive witnessed this on about half a dozen jobs ive been called out to

if you get a job where there is a large amount to supply and fit, for gods sake get the client to spec and/or supply the lights, i would not supply hf fluro fittings unless they agree to paying out for a DECENT make and not the cheap ones

 

[Westy-1]

Ive had loads of trouble with electronic hf ballasts, not just ones ive installed, but on jobs ive been called out to too where whole buildings have been fitted out with them, all different makes, and t8, 2D, t5 tubes

and loads have failed

probably all made in the same factory in china

also beware of fitting the cheap non-corrosive enclosed ones internally also, they overheat and the casings crack and hang off the ceiling, ive witnessed this on about half a dozen jobs ive been called out to

if you get a job where there is a large amount to supply and fit, for gods sake get the client to spec and/or supply the lights, i would not supply hf fluro fittings unless they agree to paying out for a DECENT make and not the cheap ones

I suppose it boils down to the old saying "you get what you pay for".

Would you recommend any decent light manufacturers?

 

[Welchyboy1]

I appreciate your answer Marvo. This, however is not an isolated incident. If I did take the lights down it would leave the (already disgruntled) customer with no light for a day or two.

I suppose my main question is, are the manufacturers only responsible for replacing the faulty goods? What about all the extra time travelling and fitting?

With increased faulty gear nowadays this is becoming more of an occurrence for me and my company and can equate to thousands of pounds of lost hours over the financial year.

(The fittings are in a warm office environment)

In this case i buy replacements from the wholesaler where i got the others from then swap them over and take the others back, no chance of getting the manufacturer to refund your time and labour expenses.......THIS IS WHY WE ALL MUST MARK UP ALL THE MATERIALS WE SUPPLY!!

to cover the cost over the year of going back and replacing the utter crap thats being manufactured nowadays!

 

[Westy-1]

I have started documenting all my faulty goods and by the end of the year I'll have an impressive list. I'll then take this to the ECA and see if they can recommend any actions (if there is any).

 

[Welchyboy1]

I suppose it boils down to the old saying "you get what you pay for".

Would you recommend any decent light manufacturers?

Thorn
thorlux
slyvanna
crompton

there are plenty of others that are of a reasonable quality, but it costs more money

but who knows how long it will be before they all sell out like MK?

 

[Marvo]

Suppliers and manufacturers usually state that their liability is limited to replacement of the product only and exclude other costs incurred or damage caused.

We use a lot of Tridonic equipment and they've always been pretty good. I've always rated them as the upper end of the middle of the road products.

 

[Welchyboy1]

I have started documenting all my faulty goods and by the end of the year I'll have an impressive list. I'll then take this to the ECA and see if they can recommend any actions (if there is any).

one of the main reasons we now have to start fitting steel consumer units too, it would be too much to ask to get the companies to manufacture the units properly in the first place, and properly train electricians to fit them

lets just update the regs again instead and make another shed load of money on books and courses like last time

 

[Westy-1]

one of the main reasons we now have to start fitting steel consumer units too, it would be too much to ask to get the companies to manufacture the units properly in the first place, and properly train electricians to fit them

lets just update the regs again instead and make another shed load of money on books and courses like last time

Unfortunately the governing bodies are easy to avoid by untrained sparks and are quite frankly seen as a joke by some.

I intend to get my monies worth.

 

[rapparee]

We also had trouble with ansell fittings and we contacted the company, the informed us that their ballasts aren't compatible with BELL fluorescent lamps. They regard bell as inferior.

 

[ian.settle1]

Never had a problem with Tridonic.

Remember fitting Hevlar HF gear once and 2 weeks later they failed again replaced them and the same thing kept happening, phoned Hevlar direct to find out what the hell was going on. It turned out that they had had a batch of faulty components which was causing the things to fail.

 

[plugsandsparks]

Just fitted 55 HF units, had 2 failures with Osram ballasts, these had faulty connections on the ballast cct board. With these type of fittings, I tend to soak test them as I go along and over order units so I can change any that failure in the first few hours, ditto tubes, used to get 1/100 fail. This time though had no failures. Its part of the game today, sadly.