Frozen burglar alarms

G

gmarichardson

All the burglar alarms in the close where I live are being affected by the recent freezing weather. When the temperatures have been getting into the minuses the burglar alarm boxes on the outside of the houses have started to tweet. Last night the alarms started going off at about 9pm and they didn't stop until the temperatures started to rise at about 11am this morning. Does anyone know what causes the boxes to go off like this? Is there anything I can do to fix this problem without having to replace the alarm?

Thanks for your time,

Gareth
 
gmarichardson said:
All the burglar alarms in the close where I live are being affected by the recent freezing weather. When the temperatures have been getting into the minuses the burglar alarm boxes on the outside of the houses have started to tweet. Last night the alarms started going off at about 9pm and they didn't stop until the temperatures started to rise at about 11am this morning. Does anyone know what causes the boxes to go off like this? Is there anything I can do to fix this problem without having to replace the alarm?

Thanks for your time,

Gareth
Click to expand...

Could be a number of reasons for that.

Most likely is a tamper switch in the bell housing is getting cold enough to go open circuit - it will probably just need the microswitch bending out a little to cure.

If it's a magnetic type tamper switch, as the box cools, it may be warping the plastic enough to make the gap too side for the reed to stay closed - fit a bigger magnet is about the only answer to that.

Alternatively, it may be battery related - if for some reason the current in the battery in the housing is dropping below a level, it may well fool the box into thinking it has been tampered with too.

Are they all the same type of bell box? Do you know what type they are? Pic?

Hard to be specific without having an idea of specifically what the kit is, and what's likely to affect it.
 
All the bell boxes are the same, as they were all installed by the same company. I don't know who the manufacturer of the boxes is....I'll have to look in my user's manual and see if it says. In the short term I've had to turn the circuit breaker off to the alarm, so that the battery will run down and the noise stops. Is it likely I'll have to replace the battery after letting it run down? When I spoke to the company that installed the alarms they said that they would replace each bell box at a cost of £100 + VAT (which would include a service of the system)........Is this a fair price?, Do you think we could expect a discount if all/most of the houses (14 in total) were done at the same time? and Should I expect them to be able to solve the problem without replacing the whole bell box?

thanks,

Gareth
 
I had a problem with an outside sounder that gave of a chirp sound so I phoned the manufacturer direct andhe told me one of the piezo sounders was faulty and because the box was only 2 years old with a 3 year warranty they sent me the replacement sounders free of charge.

So have a look who made them and give them a call and ignore the alarm company as I was doing work today in a house and they were getting the alarm upgraded at the same time and the guy was being alled every 5 minutes because customers were getting power cutss and the alarm was going of because they were not changing the battery every 5 years.
 
Im having the same problem on my estate, 40 odd houses all randomly 'chirping' their burglar alarms every few seconds throughout the night. Its only the outside bell box that has the problem and only occurs during negative temperatures. The alarm control panel itself shows no tamper alerts etc at all and is working as normal. My estate is approximatly 4/5 years old now, may be out of warranty. I need to do something as we are all losing sleep over the things and sadly right now the cold temperatures are set to continue.
 
This maybe of help to you;

RISCO Group - Creating Security Solutions. With Care. |

EDIT: Sorry I have just seen that it's password protected. Will have to check with a mod whether it's acceptable to post security technical info in the public section of the forums.

EDIT2:
Does the bellbox look like this?
risco-group-novagard-6-intruder-warning-device.jpg
 
Last edited:
My bellbox is more rectangular. Im unsure of the manufacturer of the bellbox itself, the main system is made by eurosec.
 
gmarichardson said:
All the bell boxes are the same, as they were all installed by the same company. I don't know who the manufacturer of the boxes is....I'll have to look in my user's manual and see if it says. In the short term I've had to turn the circuit breaker off to the alarm, so that the battery will run down and the noise stops. Is it likely I'll have to replace the battery after letting it run down? When I spoke to the company that installed the alarms they said that they would replace each bell box at a cost of £100 + VAT (which would include a service of the system)........Is this a fair price?, Do you think we could expect a discount if all/most of the houses (14 in total) were done at the same time? and Should I expect them to be able to solve the problem without replacing the whole bell box?

thanks,

Gareth
Click to expand...

I figured they might all be the same. Can you take a pic and post it? Can probably tell from that who's box it is (manufacturer I mean).....

£100 for a service and a new box isn't necessarily bad - it depends where you are in the UK though - but it shouldn't come to that - do you know approx how old they are? And yes, probably a bit of discount too at that volume of work, I know we would.

Yes, in principle, the problem should be solvable without needing a new box. Suspects, as said are probably tamper switches, and batteries, in that order.

The battery *should* be OK, dpesnding upon various other factors - but generally you'll find NiCad in the bell box and SLA in the panel. Both rechargeable.

Let me know if you can either by pic, or name whoi's box, and I should be able to help more - and depending where in the UK you are, we can possibly beat the £100 a system price too if you're interested.
 
drobertson81 said:
Im having the same problem on my estate, 40 odd houses all randomly 'chirping' their burglar alarms every few seconds throughout the night. Its only the outside bell box that has the problem and only occurs during negative temperatures. The alarm control panel itself shows no tamper alerts etc at all and is working as normal. My estate is approximatly 4/5 years old now, may be out of warranty. I need to do something as we are all losing sleep over the things and sadly right now the cold temperatures are set to continue.
Click to expand...

Hmmm. Again depends on bell box itself, but another thing comes to mind, which may be a culprit in this.

Given the age of your boxes, I'd not expect them to have worn out at all. Seem more like weather is affecting a "component" one way or another.

Some bell housings had an "anti-foam" device built in, or added in - which was essentially an LED transmitter and receiver pair, in an approximation of the old "laser eye" theory - in other words an optical switch. If those have been getting fogged over (if fitted) that would potentially trigger the SAB module, without generating a tamper on the panel - though I have to be honest, it sounds tamper related, and probably a magnetic tamper switch on the SAB rather than a main microswitch tamper.

Hard to be certain without an idea of who's box it is - manufacturer wise I mean - which can normally be figured out from a pic....if no name is known.
 
drobertson81 said:
My bellbox is more rectangular. Im unsure of the manufacturer of the bellbox itself, the main system is made by eurosec.
Click to expand...

K - Eurosec is a Risco brand name.

Your bell box may possibly be a Novagard.

I'm guessing, since Risco have a tech bulletin out on their Nova sounders chirping in adverse weather, it's an SAB fault, and probably, after all down to magnetic tamper, or battery.
 
Yup.

Novagard 2.

It is a microswitch tamper, and I'm fairly sure you'll find the cause of the fault comes down to moisture on the SAB PCB - it probably has a plastic cover over it - and moisture is getting trapped inside from the change of temperatures.

Best way round it is to dry the PCB right off, and coat it with something water repellant and insulating.

It won't need a new box, however.

I'm guessing the 01733 puts you in Peterborough somewhere?

We'd be happy to give a price on 14 units service and repair at better than £100 a site if you're interested.
 
if its chirping rather than sounding,probably water from the icicle's driiping in across the pcb or terminals tho depending on the age as accord says maybe the tamper switch and the battery could be shot
 
[video]http://tinypic.com/r/2znpk08/7[/video]
Heres a sample of what i'll be listening to all night.

Im not the original poster who was quoted the £100.

I will be ringing to see what warranty etc we have here tomorrow. What kind of coating do you suggest?

My estate is approximatly 4-5 years old and all the alarms were installed at the time of build
 
Last edited by a moderator:
drobertson81 said:
[video]http://tinypic.com/r/2znpk08/7[/video]
Heres a sample of what i'll be listening to all night.

Im not the original poster who was quoted the £100.

I will be ringing to see what warranty etc we have here tomorrow. What kind of coating do you suggest?

My estate is approximatly 4-5 years old and all the alarms were installed at the time of build
Click to expand...

Hiya -

I'd suggest a good conformal coating like this RS Components one would help.

Will read the thread again :) See who the £100 poster was......road testing new glasses, probably should have gone to spec savers lol!
 
After doing some research now realising I have a Nova 2 bell box, it seems to be a manufacturing fault on this model. To compensate for this they released an amendment to the instructions suggesting to put a link inbetween 0v and +ve. I will check my bellbox tomorrow and put this link in if it isnt already. Does this sound right to you qualified people out there? Anybody have a link to the amendment?

Thanks for all the help :)
 
drobertson81 said:
After doing some research now realising I have a Nova 2 bell box, it seems to be a manufacturing fault on this model. To compensate for this they released an amendment to the instructions suggesting to put a link inbetween 0v and +ve. I will check my bellbox tomorrow and put this link in if it isnt already. Does this sound right to you qualified people out there? Anybody have a link to the amendment?

Thanks for all the help :)
Click to expand...

Hi fella

That's a link between 0V and "+VE SET" - NOT the +ve terminal. You'll just short the box out if you link between 0V and +ve.

Make sure you get the right terminals.
 
Thanks :) Saved me messing things up!

I will try in the morning. Wont know if its worked till it hits negative temperatures again tho.
 
drobertson81 said:
Thanks :) Saved me messing things up!

I will try in the morning. Wont know if its worked till it hits negative temperatures again tho.
Click to expand...

Yeah - be glad to hear if it works.

It's -2 here at the moment on the South East coast, - not sure what you've got where you are though :)
 
Fitted a link this morning while it was still chirping. First impressions seem to be positive, but will have to wait till the rest of the street starts chirping again to see if it has worked as the temperatures rose whilst I was fitting it.
 
drobertson81 said:
Fitted a link this morning while it was still chirping. First impressions seem to be positive, but will have to wait till the rest of the street starts chirping again to see if it has worked as the temperatures rose whilst I was fitting it.
Click to expand...

Well done you.

Hopefully, you'll have the one "non budgie" box there tonight!

And a quick sell to the rest of the street tomorrow - a tenner a box ought to buy the Chrissy beer, methinks.....
 
Hello and thank you to everyone for all the info. I managed to find the installation instructions for my alarm....it showed that the manufacturer was Risco Group UK. I contacted their technical department and they were aware of a faulty bell box (first identified in 2006). It turns out that one of the wires in the bell box causes the system to think that there is a battery fault during cold weather. The solution is to cut this wire.....I'm just waiting to get the appropriate pdf from the manufacturer which will show how to do the work. Hopefully, this will be the end to all that beeping beeping!!!!!

Thanks again everyone,

Gareth
 
Hi All, me again!

I know its been a while, but it hasn't been cold enough to set the alarms off in the area. I monitored mine last night whilst some of the alarms on the street were still chirping (far less as many have paid for a new box to be fitted). By the time I woke up for work at 5am this morning, mine was still fine, no chirping and I was confident it was all fixed. However having spoken to my girlfriend this morning, she said that later after I had gone the box chirped for a little while :(

Does anyone have confirmation regarding the Nova2 bell box and fitting a link between 0v and +ve Set? Could the bell box have been damaged because this link wasn't fitted earlier? Does it definitely fix these boxes?

If need be i will just buy and fot a new bell box myself, but hate to be defeated to that extent right now!
 
Curious.

Sure it was yours and not another close by? The link should have cured it, unless you do also have a tamper issue.

Might be worth changing the Ni-cad battery and checking the tamper switch closes properly.
 
I wasn't there to hear it, and yeah I know how easy it is to mistake whose alarm it is. I will wait to see if I can hear it myself. Is there a quick temporary way to disable the thing overnight tho if needed? Would removing the battery suffice? The only reason I ask is because environmental health have also been around last week to make sure they are shut up.
 
drobertson81 said:
I wasn't there to hear it, and yeah I know how easy it is to mistake whose alarm it is. I will wait to see if I can hear it myself. Is there a quick temporary way to disable the thing overnight tho if needed? Would removing the battery suffice? The only reason I ask is because environmental health have also been around last week to make sure they are shut up.
Click to expand...

Removing the battery in the bell box will work, so long as you also remove the supply from the control panel too.

As far as Environmental Health go, they only need to see you're taking remedial action - and with the scale of the problem over the last few weeks, they haven't got a leg to stand on - only if they can prove you've just ignored it - and this forum shows clearly you haven't.

No way of disabling the box from the ground (short of sticking mains voltage up the bell cable - NOT recommended!!!!!).
 
Hi again.

My girlfriend was right of course! Damn alarm was still going off last night.

I got back from work this evening and it started to go off again, so having a little more time I have removed my initial link and fitted a slightly thicker link cable. Touch wood it hasnt gone off anymore tonight so far, but it is highly temperature sensitive. Could be just the temperature is a little too low at the minute.

Heres a picture incase you can give me any other tips.

2ue2s13.jpg
 
drobertson81 said:
Hi again.

My girlfriend was right of course! Damn alarm was still going off last night.

I got back from work this evening and it started to go off again, so having a little more time I have removed my initial link and fitted a slightly thicker link cable. Touch wood it hasnt gone off anymore tonight so far, but it is highly temperature sensitive. Could be just the temperature is a little too low at the minute.

Heres a picture incase you can give me any other tips.

2ue2s13.jpg
Click to expand...

Yup.

Right away - water in that bell box mate.

As I said before, a good spray with some PCB coating.

There's every possibility you've got a wet/damp PCB in there.
 
Just been around to a neighbour too, to try a link in theirs. Theirs was bone dry compared to mine. Have fitted the link also but still seems to be going off. Think there is more to it than just the link....
 
I'm new to this forum, having found it while researching this chirping problem that we are also suffering. I have the instructions from Risco about cutting a link, referred to in a previous post, but am confused about this other solution of linking 0V and +ve Set. Are these two alternative methods of solving the same problem?
 
drobertson81 said:
Just been around to a neighbour too, to try a link in theirs. Theirs was bone dry compared to mine. Have fitted the link also but still seems to be going off. Think there is more to it than just the link....
Click to expand...

Noticed, as it goes that you have a Novagard GA, rather than a Novagard 2.

The solution for the GA is the cutting of the link track on the rear of the PCB.

The solution for the Novagard 2 is connecting the link between 0Ve and +VE Set.
 
Ian_Cole said:
I'm new to this forum, having found it while researching this chirping problem that we are also suffering. I have the instructions from Risco about cutting a link, referred to in a previous post, but am confused about this other solution of linking 0V and +ve Set. Are these two alternative methods of solving the same problem?
Click to expand...

Ian

They are two different solutions, for two different products.

The solution you need depends on which of the bell boxes you have.
 
Not too sure. Sounds like I need to open it up anyway to see if there is an indication inside. Is there any simple way to distinguish them - it is a white slightly rounded rectangular box with a blue lower section with two red flashing LEDs.
 
Hey :)

I realised my mistake also and figured I needed to do the cut. I've just got in from completing this, tested with a multimeter and no more link!

Thanks so much for all your help, It really was appreciated.
 

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Electrician Courses Green Electrical Goods PCB Way Green 2 Go Pushfit Wire Connectors Electric Underfloor Heating Electrician Courses Heating 2 Go
These Official Forum Sponsors May Provide Discounts to Regular Forum Members - If you would like to sponsor us then CLICK HERE and post a thread with who you are, and we'll send you some stats etc

Advert

YOUR Unread Posts

Daily, weekly or monthly email

Receive a daily, weekly, or monthly email containing a digest of new and recently updated threads.

Thread Information

Title
Frozen burglar alarms
Prefix
N/A
Forum
Security Alarms, Door Entry and CCTV (Public)
Start date
Last reply date
Replies
43

Thread Tags

Tags Tags
alarm alarms battery electricians' talk getting problem tamper without

Advert

Thread statistics

Created
gmarichardson,
Last reply from
accordfire,
Replies
43
Views
15,967

Advert

TrueNAS JBOD Storage Server

Tilers | UK Tiling Forum | Tilers Forums | Find a Tiler
Plumbers Forums | Plumbing Advice | Gas Forum
Back
Top