help needed very quickly,

[leekemp85]

I have very nearly completed a rewire of a two bed-roomed bungalow, as this was a friend of mine I charged £1400 all in, not a bad price as it took two of us a week (I have been paid already). since I have not been there for the last week the plumber has told the lady that he has spoken to his electrician and I have broken every rule in the regs and has threaten to get an inspector in unless I give £500 cash back tomorrow.
Candie is in the middle so unsure if to believe the plumber or me.
the thing i have done wrong are.
not taken fly leads to the back boxes,
the boxes have not got grommets, this is something I always do but I did not have any on the first fix I was going to do it on second fix but my mate connected the sockets up I totally forgot about it (but is that against the regs?).
there are a few cables close to the surface all in the correct zones I have bonded/ undercoated with plaster, when the finished cote is applied they cables will be fully concealed.
and that is the minimum distance for a socket from a tap.
please be honest with your answers as I will print this off tonight and will be going around tomorrow with it tomorrow.
I have offered to correct the problems (for nothing) but have been told by the plumber that his electrician will do it and finish the work and testing for £500. and he doesnt want me in the house again just the money and the key.
please give your views asap, and what could happen if a inspector did come around to see the problems if I cant cant sort them I am currently with elesca.

thanks and sorry for the long post

 

[High Tower]

Credit where its due!

Im proud of all of you, from all of the forums i am involved in(car, m/cycle etc etc) this is by far the best!

Its fantastic that we can all be one tight consolidated unit, this is indicative of the industry that i want ours to be, the offers of support are a tribute to you all, and i to would hapily have jumped in the van and shot up from Brum!

im proud of this forum and proud to be part of it, its great to know that there are so many people with so much knowlege here and your all willing to help!

As for the suggestion of a wandering earth in the shape of a half arsed plumber, well im 6'6", 23 stone and would love the oppertunity to shove the tt rod up his **** "manually" . No mallet required

Aiden

 

[flukey]

i too am very proud of the way everyone has banded together

the more i read this post though, the more apparent it seems that this install isnt earthed or bonded and perhaps the plumber is onto something

sounds to me like the work has all been done and livened up with the absence of an incoming earth or bonding to water and gas

cant see why the inspector hasnt flagged it though

 

[leekemp85]

the bonding was mentioned with andys electrician, I did not write it down as I knew it needed doing. when I spoke to andy yesterday he was being alright about everything, its just going to be a pointless day doing some things that have tested out and finished.

 

[Spudnik]

Can you confirm that there is a main earth connected though?

 

[flukey]

hi jason, he has already said that it isnt

or is he saying its a PME as its connected to the neutral

 

[leekemp85]

hi jason, he has already said that it isnt

or is he saying its a PME as its connected to the neutral

when I started the job there was 6mm earth taged to the neutral henley block, thats how I left it as pme was going to be installed, I have now connected to a earth rod.

 

[DurhamSparky]

excellent...!!! 16mm cable, earth rod and bobs ya uncle and the plumbers a ****

bet you glad to get out of there..!! what you should have done was ring elecsa and tell them to explain to mr plumber who was right and wrong!!

 

[xraytek]

And if you do stick an earth rod up the plumbers --- dont forget to issue a minor works certificate

 

[Guest123]

And if you do stick an earth rod up the plumbers --- dont forget to issue a minor works certificate

EIC surely.......as you'll be altering the characteristics of the aforementioned "---".

 

[MarcT]

Can you take a discreet picture of said plumber, I think we should have a rogues gallery on EF, what d'ya reckon?

 

[Jason Smith]

snip a grommett, and with a appropriately sized flat blade, edge it in around the cable. you may have to scrape back a bit of the plaster etc, where the cable enters the box. Job done. almost as quick have the face plates off and slide over the cables. both ways loads easier than diggingout the box. Same time fit the fly leads to the back boxes. Wish I was there with you. ( not a little person). That was cheap for a rewire !!! The lads have shown you have done nothing illegal. All I would do is prove to your customer you have done nothing illegal, inform trading standards of the scam your customer has been subjected to, and forget it. ( how does he know how much his electrician mate would charge to change things ? )I do see work that leaves a lot to be desired, I personally always refuse to comment on anothers work but if invited to do so will inform the customer of the way according to 7671, I would of done it. I have only ever commented on unsafe situations as it is all our duty to do so.

 

[flukey]

when I started the job there was 6mm earth taged to the neutral henley block, thats how I left it as pme was going to be installed, I have now connected to a earth rod.

to leave an installation live with no bonding to gas or water and an unknown earth coupled with the other points grommets etc i would have to say, and i am very sorry to, but the plumber seems quite right to question the install, even with his limited knowledge he could see something was wrong and so should lee have

tin hat on

 

[COLLY]

cant believe that dont back down he is def trying it on with you

 

[leekemp85]

The post was nothing to do with right or wrong. it was about the money that he was trying to get from me, I have admitted that mistakes were made. with the bonding how could I connect 10mm when there were no pipes to connect to the plumber came in and ripped everything out the day i was finishing. the main earth tested out OK (0.12) but I knew it was wrong as the pen system was not bonded to the lead incomer that why PME was ordered.

 

[Toonlad]

I know this reply us a bit late to your situation, but heres something to help back you up.
If you see the niceic Dvd on periodic inspections, Tony cable actually mentions no use of grommets in his inspection, and says because they are plastered in and have no movement in the box entry, it is not necessary to list as a code recommendation; to fit them. Hope this adds support to your claim.

regards

 

[Spudnik]

The post was nothing to do with right or wrong. it was about the money that he was trying to get from me, I have admitted that mistakes were made. with the bonding how could I connect 10mm when there were no pipes to connect to the plumber came in and ripped everything out the day i was finishing. the main earth tested out OK (0.12) but I knew it was wrong as the pen system was not bonded to the lead incomer that why PME was ordered.

Ah i see.

So basically, you did the "first fix" of the main bonding ie ran the cables to the entry points but didnt get the opportunity to carry out the second fix?


And you are saying that the plumber decided to remove all the bonding cable?

 

[leekemp85]

Ah i see.

So basically, you did the "first fix" of the main bonding ie ran the cables to the entry points but didnt get the opportunity to carry out the second fix?


And you are saying that the plumber decided to remove all the bonding cable?

yeah the 10mm was in place, connected at the mains just needed a pipe to bond to, as everything had been ripped out. Job done now.

I would just like to thank everyone for the help I have received over the last few days.

 

[Des 56]

Good for you

Now maybe the time to check on his registration and a letter to the inland revenue
Ask whether the claim he was making against woulkd have been covered by your responsibility for deductions to contractors, who try to impose fines for work they are not involved in
Get his name and address to go with it
Any dodgy nonesense by him may come to light

 

[flukey]

The post was nothing to do with right or wrong. it was about the money that he was trying to get from me, I have admitted that mistakes were made. with the bonding how could I connect 10mm when there were no pipes to connect to the plumber came in and ripped everything out the day i was finishing. the main earth tested out OK (0.12) but I knew it was wrong as the pen system was not bonded to the lead incomer that why PME was ordered.

how did you issue your EIC then

 

[leekemp85]

how did you issue your EIC then

I did'nt as the job wasn't finished, I finished testing yesterday. after the bonding and earth rod was installed.

 

[saveloy]

I did'nt as the job wasn't finished, I finished testing yesterday. after the bonding and earth rod was installed.

Even more of a reason to tell the plumber to eff off. At least give you a chance to finish and sign the job off before trying to mug you off.

 

[flukey]

lesson learnt then

not sure i would power up a new install with no main earth or bonding in place especially with other trades on site as if anything was to happen you wouldnt have a leg to stand on

put it down to experience and move on

 

[Grubie Subie]

Asked him to meet you when he turns up give him a good kick in the nuts make sure you hurt him.
then tell him you want paying for your trouble.

 

[kduck]

put it down to a lesson of life, your young, people think that your young they will try it on.They still try it on when your old but by then you got good answers to give back.Take the lesson on broad dont take money before you finish the job, If another trade holds you up let them no that you can not do **** all to they finish their work.

Good luck mate don't let it put you off.

 

[pennywise]

Think they gave you a rough time as well because of your age, not that that should make any difference as to how qualified you are to rewire a house as it isn't rocket science after all ( if it were I couldn't do it ).

 

[Notsosmart]

One last thing: Ensure your friend gets a certificate from this plumber & that his registration number is valid & in date. It has been known for rogue plumbers who have once held corgi (now gas safe) to issue certs on out of date cards.

 

[galin]

As I am reading from your post you did the work meeting the regs with some things missed. As for me this plumber guy is trying to get some easy money for his electrician and the best that you can do with the owner as your friend is to give her a temporary certificate with advices of the work needed to be done and then to do it meeting all of the regs even if you need to invest additional money and time. After all it is your reputation that is being hurt. As for me the grommets are essential as the regs are saying that the cables must not be near sharp edges due to the possibility to be damaged and to make short circuits, the lack of the depth of your wiring can be explained with the safety zone of 150 mils off the straight line between the sockets if the wiring is going through the partitions between them, if not then you'll have to rewire them as the regs are strict about the 50 mils depth due to the longest screws used by the builders, as for the fly leads the regs are saying that all of the metal boxes and surfaces included in an electrical instalation must be earth-bonded as a prevention of an electrical shock if the live of the neutral wire get harmed which is something that can happens even to the most experienced of us especially in points like spurs and grids where we have a lot of cables in small volume.
best of luck in the dealing with the greedy plumber...

 

[bugsy]

If his sparky is so cleaver and regs wise why is he offering to certify your work - its a no can do and BC will not except a pir , all of the foregoing is correct bit iffy but it complies .
Don't loose your nerve and stick to your ground if need be take your regs book and part p building regs and ask him to demonstrate non compliance

 

[Cobraman]

Hi,
Just a small thing that may help with the grommets, could you snip them and fit them round the wires as a retro fit? maybe a smidge of superglue (on the grommets, not the the plumbers mouth).

 

[martinaeo7]

hi if you have done the work you would have needed to test all your work and supply certs, if you have not done this then you will have a problem.
You should have fitted gromets, as for flying leads check the regs as i dont think they are a requirement.
If you have put cables in the wall and are not a min of 50mm into the wall the circuit should be protected with a rcd .
If i was you i would check the work you have done to bs7671.