Discuss in Trouble at work! in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

S

stickywicket

Welcome to ElectriciansForums.net - The American Electrical Advice Forum
Head straight to the main forums to chat by click here:  American Electrical Advice Forum

i have been suspended from work regarding my PAT test machine been out of calibration,i work full time as a PAT Tester.
There is no re-call proceedure set up, i carry a spare meter so sent this to head office to be repaired to cover me when mine went in,this spare machine went missing from head office i told my line manager my machine was now out of calibration he said he would chase spare this went on for months i have e mails etc proving this, my machine had previously been calibrated by a firm who where not seaward approved and couldnt remove service message so didnt have a prompt when calibration was due as it had been on the whole time, work are now pushing gross misconduct and dictating regulations such as EAWR im massively concerned as had told both my managers have e mails asking for my spare meter back and mine was out of calibration! got asked on site to show my calibration certificate couldnt produce one due to been out of date! guy sent e mail to the head boss, now im going to take the fall
my question is should there be something in place to ensure the machines calibration is monitored
im not self employed is it my responsibility only to ensure machine is calibrated
i realise i have a responsibility as an opretive but have not kept the fact it was out of calibration to myself
really confused as feel i shouldnt be getting fired! i never changed the way i tested always inspected etc as
on salary there was no reason to cut corners!
i know i have a resonsibility but is it totally my fault?
any one with a little more insight to the regs etc EAWR im worried i could get in trouble with one of the professional bodies really stressing im sure i will get slated for not been responsible but i was told to carry on as under pressure to complete programe
 
Instyle LED Lighting Specialists UK
This official sponsor may provide discounts for members
S

Swicade

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #2
I'd have thought that as long as you have copies of your e-mails requesting spare tester returned AND copies of e-mails sent about PAT tester needing to be re-calibrated to line leader then your a$$ should be covered.

Add to that copies of e-mails etc of the line leader telling you to carry on testing with a tester that needs recalibrateing and you have a good case for 'only following orders' so your not to blame.

That said, i'm no legal expert so could be massively wrong, i'm only going by the fact that these days it seem's to be all about covering your a$$ with paperwork so the book can be passed on to someone else to get the blame.

I'll also add i know nothing about EAWR rules.
 
S

sparks1973

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
well i can smell summat here......if you work for a company with its own test instruments then surely:
a) they would have checkboxes and keep records of individual instruments, when they were last sent to the callibration house and when due...and of course any anomalys that may show up when but on the checkbox....this would of course ensure that any issues are caught early as an instrument is only as good as the day it leaves the callibration house and
b)it may be your responsibility to bring the instrument into the works to be put on the checkbox/rig...but the company also should have a clue of the instruments out in the field.....
 
S

sparks1973

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4
look, start getting into fixed wiring install will you for christs sake....this patting lark... well just when you think it couldn`t stoop any lower.....
 
A

alarm man

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
was the spare meter yours or the companies? its up to your line manager to keep plant upto date,when was your last audit.you need advice from a union or cab,you would have a case for unfair dismissal if what you say is right
 
A

alarm man

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
well i can smell summat here......if you work for a company with its own test instruments then surely:
a) they would have checkboxes and keep records of individual instruments, when they were last sent to the callibration house and when due...and of course any anomalys that may show up when but on the checkbox....this would of course ensure that any issues are caught early as an instrument is only as good as the day it leaves the callibration house and
b)it may be your responsibility to bring the instrument into the works to be put on the checkbox/rig...but the company also should have a clue of the instruments out in the field.....
doesnt always happen tho,and when they **** hits the fan its the lads in the field who get blamed when its not there fault,i had something similar with a piece of plant equip not in date,as soon as the conversation mentioned it was up to me,it was a fyou from me and a union call,the manager got the blame as it was up to him to make sure all plant was checked not me..
 
S

stickywicket

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7
the taking it into head office is only for them to send off they dont do the calibrating! the day after this happened all the Pat testers recieved an e mail instructing them to send any copies of calibration certificates in so they could be monitored, i printed this off aswell and took into investigation stating, shutting the gate after the horse has bolted springs to mind, this is a large firm there are failings in the management of this department my line manager has now also been suspended! but our boss is the one pushing all the regs etc! recking my head now been there 4 years and its never been a set procedure
 
A

alarm man

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8
the taking it into head office is only for them to send off they dont do the calibrating! the day after this happened all the Pat testers recieved an e mail instructing them to send any copies of calibration certificates in so they could be monitored, i printed this off aswell and took into investigation stating, shutting the gate after the horse has bolted springs to mind, this is a large firm there are failings in the management of this department my line manager has now also been suspended! but our boss is the one pushing all the regs etc! recking my head now been there 4 years and its never been a set procedure
i wouldnt worry,its not up to you to keep paperwork right,thats the gaffers job..you could seek advice from the cab,but personally id join a union,more so if your working for people who will let you take the flack for a managers failing...
 
S

stickywicket

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9
was the spare meter yours or the companies? its up to your line manager to keep plant upto date,when was your last audit.you need advice from a union or cab,you would have a case for unfair dismissal if what you say is right
spare meter was theres! never had an audit, also they havent stated in my contract about calibration been up to me! what im saying is the actual chain of events
> alligations of a failure to ensure your pat tester is anually calibrated
> alligations of knowingly using an-uncalibrated tester which could result in a serious breach of our contract to customer
>allegations that your failure to adhere to the companys and staturory requirements have breached the implied term of mutual trust and confidence and fidelity of the relationship between you" my firm & our customer ????? Dont even really understand this final
 

ruston

-
Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
If they are using the seaward software the calibration date will also flag up on their records as well as your machine unless I am very much mistaken ; in the words of the great Murray Walker lol.
 
A

Arnold Layne

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11
Stickywicket, your situation sounds a little confusing. You appear to be employed, if so are the machines yours ( you need to supply your own kit) or are they supplied by the company. If you are employed you should have some terms and conditions or procedures which outline your responsibilities in terms of ensuring that the machines are calibrated. You need to check those to understand what your position is. There is of course a responsibility to ensure that you comply with the Electricity at Work regs, but you appear to have written evidence of advising your line manager that the machine needed calibration. What exactly was the response? Your Employer also has a responsibility to ensure that the equipment you are using is calibrated and yes indeed there should be a company system to track this, particularly if the equipment belongs to the company. It is somewhat worrying that your spare machine went missing. You need to collect the paperwork and prepare to explain the situation. I assume you will be called to an interview at which you should be given a chance to explain. I hope this gets sorted out for you.
 
A

alarm man

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #12
spare meter was theres! never had an audit, also they havent stated in my contract about calibration been up to me! what im saying is the actual chain of events
> alligations of a failure to ensure your pat tester is anually calibrated
> alligations of knowingly using an-uncalibrated tester which could result in a serious breach of our contract to customer
>allegations that your failure to adhere to the companys and staturory requirements have breached the implied term of mutual trust and confidence and fidelity of the relationship between you" my firm & our customer ????? Dont even really understand this final
basically your taking the flack for someone else's mistakes(your gaffer) the fact he's been suspended is all you need to know,
 
S

stickywicket

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13
Stickywicket, your situation sounds a little confusing. You appear to be employed, if so are the machines yours ( you need to supply your own kit) or are they supplied by the company. If you are employed you should have some terms and conditions or procedures which outline your responsibilities in terms of ensuring that the machines are calibrated. You need to check those to understand what your position is. There is of course a responsibility to ensure that you comply with the Electricity at Work regs, but you appear to have written evidence of advising your line manager that the machine needed calibration. What exactly was the response? Your Employer also has a responsibility to ensure that the equipment you are using is calibrated and yes indeed there should be a company system to track this, particularly if the equipment belongs to the company. It is somewhat worrying that your spare machine went missing. You need to collect the paperwork and prepare to explain the situation. I assume you will be called to an interview at which you should be given a chance to explain. I hope this gets sorted out for you.
im employed and the equipment belongs to them! they have produced a document which outlines my responsibilities and says im responsible for testing this document required a signaiture from employee and manager i have never seen it before and didnt sighn such a document,that said im not acting dump pretending i dont have a clue as this isnt the case i know what my responsilities are but this is them pushing a point and blaming me, only grey area is the regs apart from the pat testing part!
i have allready had my investigation and fought as much as i could had e mails etc but most where about chasing my spare meter, my line manager has admitted i told him about calibration being out on my meter, i have a dissiplinary on thursday! not in a union just going to have to keep fighting
 
S

Swicade

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14
As alarm man has advised...speak to cab, union, a specialist in these events.

The fact your line leader/manager has been suspended should work in your favour. Also check all work contracts and paperwork involved to make your case as strong as possible.

Definitely,definitely seek advice on this from people qaulified in such cases.
 
S

stickywicket

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #16
cheers all, i spoke to acas today who advised that i can go for unfair dismissall etc..
but got a feeling they are going to dismiss me on thursday,taken all my stuff out of company van in case,think both myself and my line manager will go, as our boss has covered his ass big time!
 
A

Arnold Layne

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #18
The others are correct, you need specialist Employment advice. Make sure you speak with someone before Thursday.
 
S

sedgy34

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #19
Mate stop stressing!!! It's about a peice of paper you havnt burned a building down with dodgy electrical work
 
P

Plonker 3

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #20
First thing tomorrow ask for a copy of paperwork stating why you have been suspended, second ask about trade union representation and which union/s they recognize (then phone them up and join).

Then ask your employer for a copy of the companies disciplinary procedures.

Finally again contact the union and explain the circumstance who will then take up your case on your behalf, don't worry about only just joining they should still represent you or find out if you have a shop steward at the company who will take up your case for you.
 

plugsandsparks

-
Arms
Esteemed
If they have called you for an interview and you know or suspect, gross negligence and immediate dismissal is on the cards, you need to be prepared.

Think about having an advocate, who will take notes, either a union rep or a work colleague or the local vicor it does not matter but a good record of the events at the meeting will be important.

You will need to stake your case and get it on record. Produce evidence to support.
They may well fire you anyway but this is all in prep to help with a case for constuctive dismissal.

I must admit i would have thought it was management responsibility to maintain records of the equipment calibration, especially as its a fundamental part of their trust as they say.

Scape goat me thinks but dont let it blinker you, its a process at the end of the day and if they dont follow it, they themselves can be held to account under employment law.

I dont think EAWR is particularly relevant to your situation. Its about management really.

Sounds like a client has rumbled them and made a big deal about testers not calibrated. I think we all know they can be out the day after or last for years, it really is an arbitrary number
 
S

Silly Sausage

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #22
I think we all know they can be out the day after or last for years, it really is an arbitrary number
... and there are plenty of variables which affect measurements anyway.
I bet if you made 2 measurements on a circuit at the same place on separate days they would be different, very possibly out of cal range from each other, especially with two different 'in calibration' instruments.

I'd be interested to see the outcome of this. I've always assumed if it's company equipment, then it's their responsibility that it is 100% functional and calibrated (if necessary). Likewise, if it's your own personal gear, it's yours.



To the OP, I hope you get a positive result out of this, it seems you're being dumped on from above. :mad:
 
E

Engineer54

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #23
Invest in a pocket/micro recorder, and take that into this so-called disciplinary hearing. It will record everything that anyone says at that hearing. I have been using one at every official site/project meeting for several years now. They can't then deny anything that they have said or told you at a later date... You can get a fairly decent one for around 30+ notes, that will record for an hour to 90 minutes....
 
S

sedgy34

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #25
i say no harm done, they just want rid of you..... what is your rate per item
Agreed!!

Who else is down the road probably doing it this way so they don't pay you holiday pay etc for ttime served
 
A

ACDC

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #26
In my opinion, its not your responibility (unless stated in your employment contract) to ensure calibration of test equipment. Your workplace should have systems and procedures in place to ensure that all equipment is calibrated! (What would HSE do if there was a incedent!-Look at systems and procedures for a start)

If you knew the gear you were using was out of date, you should have put your foot down, stopped work and kick up a fuss with your line manager-

I`m in charge of all calibrations and internal checks of our gear, I have a system in place which automatically reminds me 2 weeks in advance when a particular item is expiring. There is no way i would expect our guys in the field to be held responsible for this. (Although i do ask them to report defects e.t.c so the item can be removed from service).

Good luck
 

ruston

-
Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
Agreed!!

Who else is down the road probably doing it this way so they don't pay you holiday pay etc for ttime served
Thats one of the ways to go about this. You need the records of any similar cases and see how they were dealt with. I'ts your right.

They must have followed their disciplinary procedures or you are being discriminated against ; and has been said leading to constructive
dismissal. If the facts are as you have related them they do not have a chance at a tribunal.

You must get yourself "a friend "or some clued up representative or they will initially make mincemeat out of you. Don't let them away with it. A lot of good advice has been given to you on the forum, try and use it to your advantage, and as Alarm man has said postpone the meeting on the grounds you are not prepared and that you will need employment disciplinary records etc.
 
1

1shortcircuit

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #29
There's only one issue I see here that could still put you in the firing line...

You knowingly took faulty/non calibrated equipment into the field.

Coming from a construction background I know only too well that people will pressure others to get the job done.

I used to be a telescopic forklift operator and part of my job was to ensure before starting work that the vehicle was "Fit to bring into service". The amount of times I refused to take the vehicle onto site was crazy but the BB site was Health & Safety bonkers so I played them at their own game. Slightest sign of any hydraulic fluid - OUT OF SERVICE, please find me something else to do whilst awaiting technician.

Another example was when I worked for an Agency, got sent to site, inspected vehicle and found a massive hydraulic leak. Explained the situation to the site manager who dismissed it and said supply my builders ha ha Don't think so mate, this machine is not fit to bring into service.

Had I have done as instructed "I" would be the one to blame if an incident occurred.

The beauty here is NO harm has been done but having said that I imagine the company in question will have to arrange retests to be done at their own expense.

The fact that all testers have been requested to provide calibration certs shows that there is no maintenance record being kept which I am sure Health & Safety require?

I think the Dictaphone thingy is a great idea for Thursday, if they see that laying on the table at the start of the meeting you may well find that the whole thing gets rearranged.

I sincerely wish you all the best and I hope that you come away laughing:thumbsup
 

snowhead

-
Mentor
Have you been called in for an interview on Thurday, to investigate the cicumstances surrounding this incident.?

Or have you formally been notified of a disciplinary hearing on Thursday.?

If it was going to be serious misconduct /instant dismissal, you'd have been gone already.

Unfair dismissal is very difficult to prove and succeed at.
 

darkwood

Mod
Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
On a cautionary note if you do record any of the meeting it may be wise to inform them upfront as it can sometimes be difficult to use as evidence in a court of law if done secretly, its a kinda of 'means to justify the end result' argument and this will be a battle of their lawyers against yours with no guarantee you vital bit of evidence will be admissable. In telling them of your intent to record the conversation i would then put forward all the questions etc that has been highlighted by this thread, with them knowing it could be used against them it may be the case that this totally dilutes the situe' with positive outcomes... if not you may have the evidence you need to back your case.
 

Risteard

-
Arms
Esteemed
constructive dismissal
Just as a point of clarification, we are referring to "unfair dismissal" if they were to dismiss him. Constructive dismissal is where the actions of the employer force the employee to leave the employment. It is extremely difficult to prove, but once proven can lead to a subsequent claim for unfair dismissal.
 

mechelec

-
Arms
Esteemed
I think PUWER is more relavent to you. Check out the HSE view on it ie the employer has a duty to provide equipment that is Safe to use, inspected and maintained. Hope this helps and good luck
 
1

1shortcircuit

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #34
I think PUWER is more relavent to you. Check out the HSE view on it ie the employer has a duty to provide equipment that is Safe to use, inspected and maintained. Hope this helps and good luck
That's the one!

Hit them with this:thumbsup
 
O

oldtimer

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #36
It looks like your senior manager has suspended you and your line manager as he needs to investigate what went wrong because the company has broken all the rules and no doubt he is raging but that is no excuse to have a go at you. If you have all the documents showing you tried to get this sorted then you are in the clear but one word of caution that does not look good for you the week before the calibration ran out you should have highlighted this in writing to your line manager and on the day it ran out then again you should have informed him you could not go to another job until this was resolved. Now in saying all of this did your line manager tell or write to you to keep testing past the date ?

To me it looks like the senior manager has a good excuse to jump down hard on everybody within the firm telling everybody you do not test with a out of date tester full stop. Worse can happen is your line manager will get fired and you could get a written warning on your behaviour you may think thats not fair but the senior manager needs to be seen to be jumping on this not just for the company but incase he gets audited . What could happen is he could write to the customers concerned saying there was a technical problem and that the tests will have to be done free of charge

Also just to add he may think that although you did inform your line manager he may think you were flipant with regards to "A well I told him its his problem" attitude
 
E

Engineer54

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #37
Senior Managers are generally very good at passing the buck, done it myself a few times too. But never at the expense of another's livelihood. Senior Managers get paid the big bucks to oversee the various departments they are responsible for. Not for just delegating and forgetting. If this is an electrical contract testing company, he is at fault, just as much as his subordinates, some would say more so!!! He is ultimately responsible for the policies and the working adherence to those policies that this company works too.

Seems to me, like there is very little meaningful communication within the administration of this company, ...in any direction!!

Having said all that, this is beginning to sound more like an underhanded way of shedding some staff during hard times.
 
D

drew35

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #38
they have produced a document which outlines my responsibilities and says im responsible for testing this document required a signaiture from employee and manager i have never seen it before and didnt sighn such a document

That's them screwed then! If you have never signed a document to acknowledge calibration responsibility then play dumb. You didn't know, how could you know?

But make sure you take someone with you!!! And not some snot nosed friend, someone who's been around the block, knows the score, and won't back down in a fight.

A union won't help you now, once an action has started its to late for them to act on your behalf, there is usually a three month period, you're only chance would be to delay for three months, but that's not going to happen.

I've sat in on quite a few of these, I don't think they could call this a sacking offence, they may go for a pay reduction period though.
 

ian.settle1

-
Mentor
Arms
they have produced a document which outlines my responsibilities and says im responsible for testing this document required a signaiture from employee and manager i have never seen it before and didnt sighn such a document

That's them screwed then!
If you have never signed a document to acknowledge calibration responsibility then play dumb. You didn't know, how could you know?

But make sure you take someone with you!!! And not some snot nosed friend, someone who's been around the block, knows the score, and won't back down in a fight.

A union won't help you now, once an action has started its to late for them to act on your behalf, there is usually a three month period, you're only chance would be to delay for three months, but that's not going to happen.

I've sat in on quite a few of these, I don't think they could call this a sacking offence, they may go for a pay reduction period though.

Not really as I have recieved documents from companies I have worked for (and others as well) outlining contract changes etc with a covering letter you have to sign the form either accepting or not accepting them, in the covering letter it stated that if you do not return the signed form by a certain date then it is deemed you accept them.

To cover themselves from you saying you never received the documents in the first place the normally send out 1 or 2 reminder letters.
 
Last edited:
Get in the union quick, I bet they would dismiss the allegatiuons at your meeting within a few minutes, if you work for a company, especially a larger one, you need to be in it!
 
i have been suspended from work regarding my PAT test machine been out of calibration,i work full time as a PAT Tester.
There is no re-call proceedure set up, i carry a spare meter so sent this to head office to be repaired to cover me when mine went in,this spare machine went missing from head office i told my line manager my machine was now out of calibration he said he would chase spare this went on for months i have e mails etc proving this, my machine had previously been calibrated by a firm who where not seaward approved and couldnt remove service message so didnt have a prompt when calibration was due as it had been on the whole time, work are now pushing gross misconduct and dictating regulations such as EAWR im massively concerned as had told both my managers have e mails asking for my spare meter back and mine was out of calibration! got asked on site to show my calibration certificate couldnt produce one due to been out of date! guy sent e mail to the head boss, now im going to take the fall
my question is should there be something in place to ensure the machines calibration is monitored
im not self employed is it my responsibility only to ensure machine is calibrated
i realise i have a responsibility as an opretive but have not kept the fact it was out of calibration to myself
really confused as feel i shouldnt be getting fired! i never changed the way i tested always inspected etc as
on salary there was no reason to cut corners!
i know i have a resonsibility but is it totally my fault?
any one with a little more insight to the regs etc EAWR im worried i could get in trouble with one of the professional bodies really stressing im sure i will get slated for not been responsible but i was told to carry on as under pressure to complete programe
Of the tester is out of cal doesn't necessarily mean you can't use it. Pends for how long it is out of cal. And if it is out of cal you can't get the sack if it still works. Use a meter test box to proof it is within a certain range. EAWR says you have to ensure personnel nad site safety. You can test an appliance, pass it somebody takes it to use and dropps it and therfore nolonger safe to use. You pased it five minutes earlier. A PAT - like a MOT - verifies and validates only for that moment of the test.
90 percent of all application you can judge whether they are safe or not. OK you still have to proove it. Unless you put deliberately someone's life at risk you can't get the sack.
In court it has to be proofed to you that an appliance was UNSAFE not the other way round.
 
P

Paullestrange

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #42
Stickywicket from what i have read,i dont think you have anything to worry about,it seems you made your managers aware the tester you was using was out of calibration.I have always used my own testers at work,and ensure i have the certificate in the testers bag and management have a copy on their files.Afew weeks before calibration i let them know its coming up(they pay for calibration)if its not done on time i dont use it simples.Keep hold of all emails etc to prove you were competent in your approach to getting it sorted and getting on with your job. Hope it works out well for you.
 
O

oldtimer

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #43
Stickywicket from what i have read,i dont think you have anything to worry about,it seems you made your managers aware the tester you was using was out of calibration.I have always used my own testers at work,and ensure i have the certificate in the testers bag and management have a copy on their files.Afew weeks before calibration i let them know its coming up(they pay for calibration)if its not done on time i dont use it simples.Keep hold of all emails etc to prove you were competent in your approach to getting it sorted and getting on with your job. Hope it works out well for you.
Paul it may sound like a silly question but why do you use your own testers plus I realise that your employer pays for the calibration but I would see it as an extra expense for you.
 
P

Paullestrange

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #45
I was brought up using Metrel and to be honest in my humble opinion theres no testers on the market that can touch them
both for fixed wire and pat. I have used Meggers,Fluke tester,in the past and most companys seem to go for Meggar.I think its what you get used to and have confidence in readings taken.Maybe i have just been lucky with employers who offer me the choice of using my own or their testers,in saying that ive only had Three jobs in Thirty years.Maybe get a thread started which tester do you prefer and why
 
P

Paullestrange

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #46
I use a Metrel for Fixed wire testing,Metrel for Pat,and Fluke for Thermal Imaging only the tester for fixed is my own
 
If they supply the equipment they are responsible for it.
Also, if it's a disciplinary hearing they have tô offer you the choice of a witness, they are not allowed to contribute to the meeting but thèy are a second pair of ears and if they have a little tape recorder about their person who can say they haven't remembered every word!
 
A

Arnold Layne

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #48
Stickywicket, we would all like to know how you got on at the interview. As you can see there have been a lot of posts on this thread offering good advice. So please let us know what happened.
 
1

1shortcircuit

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #49
Stickywicket, we would all like to know how you got on at the interview. As you can see there have been a lot of posts on this thread offering good advice. So please let us know what happened.
Perhaps his Mother has grounded him and taken away all privileges like internet access? Starting to lose interest in this thread now due to lack of update... I'm impatient like that lol
 
A

Arnold Layne

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #50
Perhaps his Mother has grounded him and taken away all privileges like internet access? Starting to lose interest in this thread now due to lack of update... I'm impatient like that lol
"Patience is a virtue find it if you can. Seldom in a woman...never in a man" but I am trying....stay with it. Maybe he will let us know. Here's hoping and male patiently waiting...
 
S

sparks1973

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #54
Invest in a pocket/micro recorder, and take that into this so-called disciplinary hearing. It will record everything that anyone says at that hearing. I have been using one at every official site/project meeting for several years now. They can't then deny anything that they have said or told you at a later date... You can get a fairly decent one for around 30+ notes, that will record for an hour to 90 minutes....
hmm....freedom of information act at work here eng..lol....
 
S

sparks1973

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #55
Perhaps his Mother has grounded him and taken away all privileges like internet access? Starting to lose interest in this thread now due to lack of update... I'm impatient like that lol
like `get up them stairs without no tea`....
 
B

Bobster

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #57
hmm....freedom of information act at work here eng..lol....
Fairly sure you can record people's voices without prior permission, same with filming without audio. Although for it to be used in court they have to be informed.
 
S

sparks1973

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #58
Fairly sure you can record people's voices without prior permission, same with filming without audio. Although for it to be used in court they have to be informed.
yes i know i know....well if you can take film of people without their prior permission (think spy cameras)....
 
A

Ashley2

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #60
As per post 9:
"1. Alligations of a failure to ensure your pat tester is annually calibrated

2. Alligations of knowingly using an-uncalibrated tester which could result in a serious breach of our contract to customer
3. Allegations that your failure to adhere to the companys and staturory requirements have breached the implied term of mutual trust and confidence and fidelity of the relationship between you" my firm & our customer ????? Dont even really understand this final"

1. If it was his Pat Tester, then he needs to be careful here.
2. Again as per 1.
3. This is a big issue with respect to 3. Not only is this a minefield for the company, but this is also a minefield for the employee, if it was his own tester. (For instance, if you are using your own equipment, you have a duty to the company you work for, in terms of trust & confidence, as laid out in employment case law, that your act(s) do not undermine the trust & confidence the employer has in you, or the client has in your employer.

He needs to ensure that he takes someone in with him to all meetings, & he should have joined the union right at the outset (the employer does not need to know that he has just joined the union). Knowing that he is in the union may make a major difference, because the employer may not want to go that route, & the employer knows that he is not dealing with a novice/ or individual.

He could initially take a non union rep into the meetings, but he should always take someone in, & they should be taking notes.

There is also the issue of whether he has been employed by the company for the required period, (I think this is for at least a year), to be able to have the statutory protection, relating to employment law.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
O

oldtimer

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #61
I hope Stickywicket gives us an update or we will all end up talking to ourselves yet again
 

Kamikaze

-
Arms
Esteemed
Does he not realize we need to know the ins and the outs. Personally I thing it’s rude to keep us in suspense like that.
 

ian.settle1

-
Mentor
Arms
Think we should give up on him as his first post was last tuesday asking for advice also telling us his hearing was last Thursday but he has not been back to tell us what has happend to him.
 
S

sparks1973

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #64
Think we should give up on him as his first post was last tuesday asking for advice also telling us his hearing was last Thursday but he has not been back to tell us what has happend to him.
he`s probably had enough at the mo of anything to do with cables n testing.....he may have gone over to the dark side to talk about pipework and poo....
 
O

oldtimer

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #65
And you wonder why some members get annoyed so for anybody new to this forum please remember if want to be an electrician instead of a pretend electrician you need to learn to thank people have humility when asking questions and keep us informed. Now if you think I am having a go at you and think you are being bullied when a member insists on more information or may be critical of your approuch to the subject of your post it is because they are trying to get you to aspire to be a better electrician because only stupid ones get themselves or somebody else injured or worse killed then think on this is not the school of bad knocks and if you think it is you should not be here.

Rant over will being unsubscribing from this post oldtimer out
 
uHeat Banner - Forum Discount Available
This official sponsor may provide discounts for members

Reply to in Trouble at work! in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Bulk Workwear - Clothing Suppliers for the Whole Forum Network
This official sponsor may provide discounts for members
Top Bottom