Landlord - Electrical Safety Certificate

[Midwest]

This is what a fire rated IP65 rated LED down light looks like (example);

 

[David Steel]

I am going out for the evening. I will check in over the weekend.

I am very grateful to your replies and help. I will respond to all replies.

At the end of the day, my sister just wants peace of mind that she is legally covered for the electrical safety of the flat (and safety of her brother lol) I'm getting the feeling that unlike the gas, there is no official 'Landlord Electrical Safety' cert and there is a bit of a grey area.

A lot of you are referring to an EICR certificate, which I never got (and paid £100 for an inspection). So this is something I will ask.

I will reply to any other posts over the weekend. Many thanks.

 

[westward10]

Seems like he has jumped a step by not submitting the original Report and then giving you or your sister a chance to discuss your options with him. I would ask for a copy of the original EICR and if it is not forthcoming inform him you will take it up with NAPIT. Unfortunately we are plagued with electricians, and I use the term lightly who see a fuse board which may not comply with current requirements and which is still perfectly servicable and suggest it is replaced.

 

[David Steel]

I am going out for the evening. I will check in over the weekend.

I am very grateful to your replies and help. I will respond to all replies.

At the end of the day, my sister just wants peace of mind that she is legally covered for the electrical safety of the flat (and safety of her brother lol) I'm getting the feeling that unlike the gas, there is no official 'Landlord Electrical Safety' cert and there is a bit of a grey area.

A lot of you are referring to an EICR certificate, which I never got (and paid £100 for an inspection). So this is something I will ask.

I will reply to any other posts over the weekend. Many thanks.

Is that what was supplied & fitted?

No. They did not supply and fit them. They have been in for over 10 years. The electrician initially said these lights had to be replaced with new IP rated lights.

He quoted for the bathroom lights, but then did not go ahead with the job, because they had the wrong lights to replace them (this is another story).

The important point, is the fact that he said that the new fuse box (with it's all-singing circuitry) would supersede the safety of the lights, because the fuse box gives the safety & protection needed.

 

[Midwest]

A halogen GU10 luminaire looks something like this (example again);


Sorry about the sizing, but you'll note how the lamp is recessed.

 

[David Steel]

Seems like he has jumped a step by not submitting the original Report and then giving you or your sister a chance to discuss your options with him. I would ask for a copy of the original EICR and if it is not forthcoming inform him you will take it up with NAPIT. Unfortunately we are plagued with electricians, and I use the term lightly who see a fuse board which may not comply with current requirements and which is still perfectly servicable and suggest it is replaced.

I agree that it is likely he jumped a step by not issuing a EICR.

I am not in a position to say whether the old fuse box was serviceable. What I will say is that I believe the box was decades old and it was covered in rust.

 

[David Steel]

A halogen GU10 luminaire looks something like this (example again);


Sorry about the sizing, but you'll note how the lamp is recessed.

Yes, I will look at this soon.

My sister and I agree, that the bathroom lights will probably need changing soon.

 

[Midwest]

No. They did not supply and fit them. They have been in for over 10 years. The electrician initially said these lights had to be replaced with new IP rated lights.

He quoted for the bathroom lights, but then did not go ahead with the job, because they had the wrong lights to replace them (this is another story).

The important point, is the fact that he said that the new fuse box (with it's all-singing circuitry) would supersede the safety of the lights, because the fuse box gives the safety & protection needed.

Arrgh, I see. No those fittings do not look suitable to be installed in a bathroom, in a zone or otherwise IMO. But that is a separate matter, to be dealt with separately.
Edit; need a drink!

 

[telectrix]

while your new all singing dancing CU vastly improves safety, esp. in a bathroom, it will not stop steam getting in those lights, esp halogens which run very hot and have been known to explode, showering whoever is in the bath with shards of hot glass. IP44 or better IP55 with LED, either GU10s or fully integrated is the way forward. the integrated ones look a heap better.

 

[westward10]

There is every chance your existing board needed replacing and no one is doubting you now have improved circuit protection. The way to procure this suggested replacement is to itemise so many issues in the EICR that the remedial solution is to replace it.

 

[Octopus]

I'm guessing he's been paid................ but to charge £100 and not provide the unsatisfactory EICR, then charge £450 for a board change ........... did this include upgrades to earthing and bonding?

Do you have the EIC? Has he promised a Part P certificate?

So in summary, you are £550 down, and have nothing to present to the letting agents........

 

[Midwest]

Its all been stated, perhaps allow OP to contact the electrician

 

[b-spark]

Being a electrician and in the letting game, I can say if its registered with building regs. You are 100% legal, legally its gas and portable appliances which have regular inspections. Your condition report is only good until change of occupant. Ie you move out. It does sound like you have been misled on the first inspection, this could have been sold as a "visual inspection only" either way you would receive paperwork on that. By the sounds of it you will get to the bottom of it.

 

[davesparks]

Being a electrician and in the letting game, I can say if its registered with building regs. You are 100% legal, legally its gas and portable appliances which have regular inspections.

Please can you clarify exactly what you mean by being registered with building regs? Building regs are documents, nothing more.
Also please specify which laws require regular inspections of gas and portable appliances?

 

[b-spark]

Please can you clarify exactly what you mean by being registered with building regs? Building regs are documents, nothing more.
Also please specify which laws require regular inspections of gas and portable appliances?

I did respond Dave with a reply, "wouldn't post" This is HSE territory regardless of letting portfolio. I would go on to explain further. "Regs" my error, building control being the collective word. If its registered then legally the landlord has mitigated the risk. As we all know a fuseboard would require a full certificate of tested circuits. My old company was involved with these matters. which the HSE used such information to put a case forward involving a major contractor.

 

[Risteard]

As we all know a fuseboard would require a full certificate of tested circuits.

That's actually a matter of debate. An EIC issued for the replacement of a DB is simply certifying the DB installation as compliant with BS7671 as this is the scope of work. However, there is a need to ascertain that the safety of this is not impaired by the existing installation and will not impair the safety of the existing installation. So it's necessary to ensure that the protective devices (assuming of a different type) will operate in the required time and that the connections you have made in the DB are satisfactory. So some would argue that this can be met by verifying cpc continuity to the first point on the circuit as opposed to the last. It's actually a bit of a grey area as you are not in any way certifying the existing installation (although you should make any necessary comments on it in the appropriate section of the EIC).

 

[Octopus]

This is HSE territory regardless of letting portfolio. I would go on to explain further. "Regs" my error, building control being the collective word.

Precisely ............. so nothing to do with sparking!

 

[Octopus]

An EICR is like an MOT for your vehicle ................. only tells a story the day its done.

 

[b-spark]

What's that got to do with my post?? The guy wanted reassurance that he's safe. The whole point is that someone has taken ownership of the work. Again mitigating the risk of responsibility. Your right its an mot, but if that installation kills somebody. Then the contractor is found not to have a paper trail of procedure. Then who's fault is it? Not the landlord. The electrician. A house blew up a few months ago in manchester with a gas fault. HSE went for the gas fitter. Sole trader or not.

 

[Risteard]

The whole point is that someone has taken ownership of the work.

What work do you believe they have taken ownership of?

 

[davesparks]

Your right its an mot, but if that installation kills somebody. Then the contractor is found not to have a paper trail of procedure. Then who's fault is it? Not the landlord. The electrician. .

The electrician and the landlord could both be found guilty.

 

[b-spark]

The electrician and the landlord could both be found guilty.

Your right,
Only if they are in cahoots or limitations have been set by the landlord. If the landlord has employed a registered contractor received original paperwork, its the electrician who's to blame. Ask your inspector when he comes. Im not into this one up game, I'm providing my experience, my agents wont even allow me to let unless I have the latter

 

[davesparks]

Your right,
Only if they are in cahoots or limitations have been set by the landlord. If the landlord has employed a registered contractor received original paperwork, its the electrician who's to blame. Ask your inspector when he comes. Im not into this one up game, I'm providing my experience, my agents wont even allow me to let unless I have the latter

Inspector of what? The only inspector I ever see is the one who does our explosives storage licence.

 

[b-spark]

Inspector of what? The only inspector I ever see is the one who does our explosives storage licence.[/QUOTE
Well then you have no knowledge to even comment on this thread.
This is sounding very my dicks bigger than yours. And moving off the subject.

 

[davesparks]

It was a simple enough question, who is this inspector you are referring to?

 

[b-spark]

Your governing body inspector for approved contractor status or domestic installation. Relative to the thread. Niceic ECA Napit

 

[Noaksie]

Landlord certificate.... Crap what is required is an EICR this is a full inspection of the installation. "You need a new consumer unit" Heard that one too lots of times
You may well do but the Inspection recommendation codes on the EICR will tell the full story.
If a new cu is fitted then a EIC must be provided.
Make sure you use a fully qualified electrician. Not all the best tradesmen are NAPIT/NICEIC
Some of the worst quality work I have witnessed has been certified by their members.

 

[Octopus]

Your governing body inspector for approved contractor status or domestic installation. Relative to the thread. Niceic ECA Napit

Ha ha, that's almost funny.

The schemes do nothing once they have your money ....... Unless you use their logo and are not a member.

The closest the schemes get to inspecting anything, is the site YOU choose for your annual assessment ......

 

[b-spark]

So I take it nobody is a member?? I'm a industrial electrician and we carry the scheme, half the inductions I do request it, wouldn't get the work otherwise. All FM companies ask for our scheme before we get on the books. Anyway this is way beyond the subject matter.

 

[JK-Electrical]

I'm not sure how the law works down south, but up here in Scotland, an EIC can be used in lieu of an EICR to prove that the installation complies with the guidance relating to private lets. I quote from Electrical Safety Laws For Private Rental Properties In Scotland, as published by the Scottish Government:

You may have a copy of an Electrical Installation Certificate rather than an EICR if:

- Your property is a new build
- The property has been fully rewired.

If you have an Electrical Installation Certificate, you can provide this to demonstrate that your property complies with the new guidance, provided that the date of the next inspection indicated on the certificate has not elapsed.

However, there is no mention of an EIC issued after a consumer changeover being acceptable! Do the same conditions apply in England and Wales?