Locations containg a bath or shower - Additional protection

[Midwest]

I do a lot of domestic bathroom refurb's. Sometimes its as little as replacing the main luminaire.

As regards additional protection by RCD, I sought some guidance from my scheme on RCD requirement, when doing as above. And was confirmed that a like for like replacement of luminaires or accessories, in an existing install, did not require additional protection by RCD (supplementary bonding in place if necessary).

I have one to do in a week, replacing down light & extractor fan in ensuite. However, they have an existing shaver socket, they want relocating. There is a cupboard, outside zone 2, in which there is an existing circuit (no RCD) supplying a luminaire, which will become redundant. I was contemplating using this to supply the relocated shaver socket?

Wadda do ya think? Or am I over complicating things

 

[Octopus]

Tricky one........

Like for like - comment on invoice

Relocating the shaver point - I would be inclined to be stricter and insist on the RCD

 

[Richard Burns]

The bathroom is defined by walls, floors, ceiling, doors and fixed partitions, etc. therefore you can (possibly) consider the cupboard to be outside of the bathroom and not require RCD protection to the supplying circuit (so long as the circuit does not also feed the bathroom or pass within the walls of the bathroom).
A shaver socket on its own (not the supplying circuit) would not need 30mA RCD protection as it is protected by electrical separation rather than ADS.
However I would supply the 30mA RCD protection anyway if practical to do so.

 

[Midwest]

The actual fix is quite easy, the mcb can be replaced with an RCBO. The current shaver socket is adjacent to the sink, would be moved into a cupboard to another existing circuit on an mcb, almost like, 'like for like'.

Thanks for the advice, I had emailed my scheme, I'll report back with their advice.

 

[telectrix]

fit the RCBO then your arse is covered.

 

[Ian1981]

If an existing circuit of a location containing a bath or shower is extended, at least the extended part of the existing circuit must be provided with RCD protection. Supplementary bonding in a bathroom or shower room must be provided unless all the requirements in the 17th Edition for the omission of supplementary bonding are met.

 

[Midwest]

If an existing circuit of a location containing a bath or shower is extended, at least the extended part of the existing circuit must be provided with RCD protection. Supplementary bonding in a bathroom or shower room must be provided unless all the requirements in the 17th Edition for the omission of supplementary bonding are met.

But that's the rub, I'm not extending it. I'm disconnecting the luminaire and reconnecting the shaver socket?

Edit; supplementary bonding is only required if something is extraneous

 

[Ian1981]

But that's the rub, I'm not extending it. I'm disconnecting the luminaire and reconnecting the shaver socket?

Thought you were relocating the shaver socket ie moving it to another location in the bathroom.
Fed of the lighting I would guess?

 

[telectrix]

sorry your honour, i was only moving i tand never thought of fitting a RCBO till i read the local rag and saw my customer was brown bread.

 

[Ian1981]

But that's the rub, I'm not extending it. I'm disconnecting the luminaire and reconnecting the shaver socket?

Edit; supplementary bonding is only required if something is extraneous

All circuits in the location would still need supplementary bonding together regardless if associated pipework was plastic if no rcd protection was afforded
Really only a shower and lighting I suppose normally

 

[Midwest]

Thought you were relocating the shaver socket ie moving it to another location in the bathroom.
Fed of the lighting I would guess?

Sorry its difficult to describe. Existing shaver socket point needs to go. Customer still wants a shaver socket, doesn't want light in cupboard anymore (it's bathroom furniture, not a walk in cupboard), so I will disconnect light and reconnect shaver socket to it. The old light was on it's own separate circuit (for some reason), it's whether I leave it on mcb or convert to RCBO.

 

[Midwest]

All circuits in the location would still need supplementary bonding together regardless if associated pipework was plastic if no rcd protection was afforded
Really only a shower and lighting I suppose normally

I don't see the point of bonding a plastic pipe?

 

[Ian1981]

If it's like for like it's more like maintenance, however you could always improve the safety by fitting an rcbo

 

[Ian1981]

I don't see the point of bonding a plastic pipe?

Circuits still need supplementary bonding together.
Obviously not the pipework if plastic
There's a good detailed drawing in guidance note 8 if you have a copy?

 

[Midwest]

If it's like for like it's more like maintenance, however you could always improve the safety by fitting an rcbo

Suppose I'm just interested in the logic of it, bearing in mind I can replace luminaires like for like.

 

[Midwest]

Circuits still need supplementary bonding together.
Obviously not the pipework if plastic
There's a good detailed drawing in guidance note 8 if you have a copy?

And if the metal pipework is not extraneous?

Edit; thanks I'll have a gander.

 

[Ian1981]

Circuits still need supplementary bonding together.
Obviously not the pipework if plastic

And if the metal pipework is not extraneous?

When we supplementary bond in the bathroom without rcd protection we bond all associated circuits in the location and any extraneous parts like pipes.
Nothing's different with non extraneous pipework apart from the pipes , which won't require supplementary bonding.
Circuits don't change tho do they?

 

[Wilko]

Hi MW - for what it's worth, I would probably add the rcbo to the job and notify it.

 

[Ian1981]

Suppose I'm just interested in the logic of it, bearing in mind I can replace luminaires like for like.

Because new work like alterations need to meet the requirements of bs7671

 

[Midwest]

When we supplementary bond in the bathroom without rcd protection we bond all associated circuits in the location and any extraneous parts like pipes.
Nothing's different with non extraneous pipework apart from the pipes , which won't require supplementary bonding.
Circuits don't change tho do they?

But if there's no extraneous conductive parts, there's no reason to supplementary bond them. In this case I only have one circuit. So if I use this 2nd light circuit (without RCBO) you saying I have to local supplementary bond both these circuits?