Loop in/out or junction box

E

elektrisien

Hi ,

A quick question about wiring downlighters. I am wiring college rooms, it is on price, so its kind of a rush job. There are 3 downlighters all about a meter from each other in the ceiling. The way the contractor wants it done, is loop in, loop out, meaning 3 choc boxes and connector blocks. Another way a spark showed me on site that is much quicker. is just taking all 3 downlighters to one choc box with a connector block. Can it be done this way ? Is it up to standard or a bodge job ?
 
elektrisien said:
Hi ,

A quick question about wiring downlighters. I am wiring college rooms, it is on price, so its kind of a rush job. There are 3 downlighters all about a meter from each other in the ceiling. The way the contractor wants it done, is loop in, loop out, meaning 3 choc boxes and connector blocks. Another way a spark showed me on site that is much quicker. is just taking all 3 downlighters to one choc box with a connector block. Can it be done this way ? Is it up to standard or a bodge job ?
Click to expand...
Rather than post here just get on with it then, I would have connected them all by now LOL
 
It is a rectangular small plastic box that you use to for connections. The connector block fit in it , all the connections in the block is in the box. It makes it safe and protects the connections. You close the lid with a little screw supplied. Maybe you know it by a different name ?
 
Wagobox ? The contractor is supplying the materials. I cannot make up my own specifications as I go along. He supplied us with choc boxes and that is what is to be used. 6 replies and not one answer the question in any sensible way. Have you boys been in the beers ? Shall I post again on Monday ?
 
elektrisien said:
It is a rectangular small plastic box that you use to for connections. The connector block fit in it , all the connections in the block is in the box. It makes it safe and protects the connections. You close the lid with a little screw supplied. Maybe you know it by a different name ?
Click to expand...
Like junction box
 
I thought they were DIY bits of kit, we use wago boxes or Jbs usually, those things are horrible to use, I wouldn't use them myself, little 5 amp connector blocks inside and too many bits to screw in like cable clamps etc, yuk
 
I know they are time consuming and very fiddly to use. But that is the way they want it done,it is probably the cheapest method. That is why I want to use as few of them as possible. So, can I connect all the lights into one ? They all work from the same switch. Or is it loop in, loop out ?
 
well you could wire the feed and neutrals into the switches and then loop around the lights from the switch, a maximum of two T&Es then at each light and one at the last, depending on the type of light you may not need any choc boxes at all if you wire that way.
 
? Normally feed in switch then loop in and out through the downlighter terminals themselfs.

Why do you need another jb?

I guess we are lucky that we make our spec up on the day and alter to those around us
 
? Normally feed in switch then loop in and out through the downlighter terminals themselfs.

Why do you need another jb?

The problem being the terminals on the downlighters are so small, they will not take two cables, that is why you have to use a choc box to do the connections that you have only one cable connecting to the downlighter ...... maybe if I explained this, it would have been easier to understand.
We even used these choc boxes on all the light fixtures at a hotel in Park Lane, if you would think anybody could afford a proper job , it would be them. Everybody is just doing it as cheap as possible ..... greediness.
 
20140407_141923.jpgSo chuck it all in with the insulation and in a couple of years it will look like this:

Well I would upload a picky if this stupid forum would let me!

20140407_141858.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You've probably done the job by now and gone home to bed! But if you havent then yes you can do what you suggest, my speckled hen told me .....
 
elektrisien said:
I know they are time consuming and very fiddly to use. But that is the way they want it done,it is probably the cheapest method. That is why I want to use as few of them as possible. So, can I connect all the lights into one ? They all work from the same switch. Or is it loop in, loop out ?
Click to expand...

Wouldn't that involve putting three cables into a strain relief that's designed for one? Running from one box I mean.
 
Yup. They're alright for wiring low voltage lighting transformers into the supply then tucking into the ceiling void because they have the strain relief on. No good for anything other than one cable in and one cable out though. Which is a problem in the OP's intended application. Lots of swearing trying to get two cables under one strain relief.
 
elektrisien said:
Hi ,

A quick question about wiring downlighters. I am wiring college rooms, it is on price, so its kind of a rush job. There are 3 downlighters all about a meter from each other in the ceiling. The way the contractor wants it done, is loop in, loop out, meaning 3 choc boxes and connector blocks. Another way a spark showed me on site that is much quicker. is just taking all 3 downlighters to one choc box with a connector block. Can it be done this way ? Is it up to standard or a bodge job ?
Click to expand...
This method of wiring is within the design specs of a choc box, so long as you are using 1mm² T&E. Since you would need four cables and they are designed to be able to take two cables at each end.
It would also meet the requirements of the regulations so long as the choc box was placed on a surface.
However as you may have seen above it is not a nice method of wiring, that said since all the connections for this job are in choc boxes there is no difference with what you are proposing. It will make later maintenance more difficult but not impossible.
As said in other posts there are a lot of much better ways of doing this, to which you unfortunately do not have access.
 
Thanks for all the input. The job is not done yet though, there are 700 rooms to do, and part of the college opens in July. I would say once testing starts or switches are being flicked it will be a nightmare. Some other guys have done the wiring, they are not on site anymore, no cable is labelled, coils of cables everywhere, you get the picture. I am going to do it the quick way and bugger the rest, as you say it is legal .... You cannot expect the man on the tools to make up for what management lacks.
 
stevethesparks said:
Thats concerning, I notice that push fit in line connectors have been used and burnt out along with a couple of wagos with this chocbox. What was the reason for the overheating?
Click to expand...

The connectors weren't Wagos my friend, they were good old shxte choc block and is was all curled up together, directly above a fire "hood" above the 50w lamp, completely surrounded by insulation.

The heat has affected the T&E as its nearly firm now.

A realy terrible install and the heat build up has made the ceiling brittle too.

I've warned the client that when they have a new kitchen they should allow for a new ceiling and rewiring of the 22 lights!
 
Murdoch said:
The connectors weren't Wagos my friend, they were good old shxte choc block and is was all curled up together, directly above a fire "hood" above the 50w lamp, completely surrounded by insulation.

The heat has affected the T&E as its nearly firm now.

A realy terrible install and the heat build up has made the ceiling brittle too.

I've warned the client that when they have a new kitchen they should allow for a new ceiling and rewiring of the 22 lights!
Click to expand...

Many thanks for clearing that up. looking closer it becomes more obvious.
 
Why would you want to 3 plate downlighters. Surely it's easier to take the feed to the switch then just run switch line back up to the lights. Atleast there are no hidden junction boxes for the next bloke behind you to find when something goes wrong. Then switch line into JB and heat flex into fitting.. Although if LED I suppose you could get away without the heatflex ??
 

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Loop in/out or junction box
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elektrisien,
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