Mandatory EICRs in Rental Properties - 1 year or 5 years

[Spazz]

Please post your comments on here - state if you think EICRs should be done every year or 5 years.
Also please state your reason behind your choice - please don't put money!, profit for us, cost to landlords etc!

I will put this forward to Parliament in favor of which one is considered best by the experts in the field (us)

Please sticky this as well please

 

[trev]

Logo on the van???? How many people are on their roll of shame for using the NIC logo without being a member...flippin loads.
How many lives has Part P saved...not very many I'd bet but that's a stat which we will never be able to get

The customer does not care, all they want is for the lights to go on and the idiot box in the corner to work

 

[trev]

Take their membership away... ooo thats scary, if they're doing crap work do you think not being in a scam is going to stop them. There's an NICEIC approved contractor near me, everyone knows he juices up without testing but according to him every spark in town is a cowboy, me included.
Funny how every spark in town has had him by the throat, me included hehe

 

[Spazz]

Plus, the MEICRs (which as has been pointed out do not exist), suppose you carry one out and 3 weeks later the house burns down. Fire brigade say "Electrical fault" which they always do when they can't find the cause (I have a mate in the fire service)
Who gets the blame?

Exactly the same if we do an EICR and the place burns down - whats saying we didnt make the results up - nothing!

Whos to blame?

MEICRs was just an idea - nothing else - if the law got passed then something would have to be put into place cheaper than the EICRs for change of tenancy (if put into law)


Realistically all what is needed is a 5 year inspection - this will show everything up and sort all landlords out!

 

[trev]

That recommendation is in the regs already, couple that with the EAWR then you have a law (I believe)
Although I'm an electrician not a lawyer

 

[Spazz]

This is what I said - if law changed to change of tenancy a cheaper version of the EICR will have to come out - or landlords wont do it or more fakes will be issued!

The thing is like I sad on 1st page

There is 1 law already in place but because it is so broad people don't understand it!


The Electrical Installation must be safe and maintained

This can mean anything to anyone!
This could mean wait for it to go wrong and fix it fast!


Same as with PAT testing!
the employer must provide safe and maintained electrical equipment

Again this could mean anything to anyone

 

[Des 56]

Yes we still have cowboys doing work without notifying it - but the fault of that lays with the home owner! They should check for NICEIC at least!

NICEIC is widely known and something as easy as a logo on the van or ID is the easy thing- the problem is people dont check!

If you made that statement over ten years ago.it would have a smidgen of truth about it

Nicholas,do you honestly believe that scheme membership gives assurance to anybody that the person is competent or even an electrician in the first place

Surely you are aware that there are as many competent and unregistered electricians,(either not wanting, or employed, and not requiring registration) as there are charlatons posing as electricians,kitted out with pretty Niceic logos and the all important incompetence to boot for this part p fiasco

​

 

[Spazz]

I was waiting for that Des - Yes I am aware - like I said before the government needs to make a campaign to show home owners how to check if someone is registered

Again like I said before the other problem is that these schemes are in it for the money - nothing else!

Again nothing to do with Part P - its the schemes this time!

The idea of Part P is fine - its how it has been put into place.


I know alot blame the Part P but come on - lets have one person explain why Part P is so bad and what can be done about it to fix it that without having a negative effect on anything else - because I promise you now tif Part P solves the problems that you all say - they will make other problems and the same ones will moan again just because they have to find something to moan about!

and notice its always the same ones - says something!


Come on Im opening this to the floor - post a problem with Part P and a solution for it! - otherwise drop this bloody Part P Moan!

 

[Geordie Spark]

What about the drive bys though how are you going to combat that? As I and others have said, bring in what you're proposing and the incidence of drive by I&T will increase exponentially, thus reducing fees and making it uneconomical for anyone to do it properly. Even a perfectly reputable company could unwittingly employ a lazy git, I've seen it a boatload of times where guys make up test results.

I saw a bloke doing a full test using a £7 multimeter from Maplin - NOT a Multifunction Tester - just a multimeter and he somehow managed to provide figures for Insulation Resistance, Ze, Zs and a full range of RCD tests !!!

What was that certificate worth ???

 

[Geordie Spark]

Yes we still have cowboys doing work without notifying it - but the fault of that lays with the home owner! They should check for NICEIC at least!

NICEIC is widely known and something as easy as a logo on the van or ID is the easy thing- the problem is people dont check!

If you made that statement over ten years ago.it would have a smidgen of truth about it

Nicholas,do you honestly believe that scheme membership gives assurance to anybody that the person is competent or even an electrician in the first place

Surely you are aware that there are as many competent and unregistered electricians,(either not wanting, or employed, and not requiring registration) as there are charlatons posing as electricians,kitted out with pretty Niceic logos and the all important incompetence to boot for this part p fiasco

​

Have any of you had a Gas Safe registered bloke working in your house & have you ever asked to see his registration card? If so, did any of you look at the back of it to see if he was qualified to work on the appliance he was in your house to work on ??

I was CORGI registered for years & never once was I asked by a customer to show my card !!!

The fact is that your average punter doesn't care how many bits of paper or fancy plastic cards you have hung around your neck on a bit of string. All they want is for their appliance to work !!

 

[UNG]

I have had the Welsh Housing Minister come back to me in regards to this:

He said he thinks its going to cost the landlords more than they are currently spending now

I need an idea of how much landlords/homeowners are spending on an annual basis when they are in crisis mode only

I am thinking about £300 - £500 depending on what goes wrong (per year)

I also have to state the annual cost of EICRs every year and MEICR every change of tenant
Im thinking:
£450-£500 - first year (New CU and MEICR (IR, Zs and RCD Test)
£250 - £300 - every year (EICR and MEICR

Any other ideas on this would be greatly appreciated

I am also thinking - this should decrease insurance policies (reducing risk of fire, electric shocks, etc)

Spend on a crisis basis could be a roof leak a burst pipe in fact a lot of things that are not electrical. The rent has to cover a lot of things not least servicing the loan on the property. There are a lot of people moaning about the rents being to high now and your £250 - £300 per year is another £5 -£6 a week on the rent

You need to look closer to home for landlord costs as you know at least one and you need to focus on all areas of the property costs not just the electrical

Why is it everything you check is going to need a new CU seems to me the 17th regs where designed to educate a minority that everyone needs a new CU as it's good for business

Insurance companies don't ask for EICR's now and if the electrics in every house in the land is as bad as you suggest they are then I can only see premiums rising having drawn their attention to the increased risk they now find themselves insuring

I do agree why should we pay to check that idiot tenants haven't made the installation a hazard!
But you say that its their fault and only their fault - but think about it this way if a tenant modifies something and a landlord does not have it checked then the next tenant is killed (worse case) who is to blame?

THE LANDLORD because they have a legal responsibility to ensure that the electrical installation is safe at the start and during the whole tenancy!
I agree that this is not right but the problem is that this is the case!

somersetspark - you seem like a decent landlord - and like you say everyone that you checked is fine - again responsible landlords but what about those you don't check?

The problem is that those who are not responsible are the ones who let the whole lot down - same as with sparks and everything else!

So what is needed is to have a tenant idiocy test if you are to big an idiot you don't get to rent

How do you intend to police the dodgy electrics on the neighbourhood cannabis farms

The best thing which could happen is that T&I becomes notifiable!

This way all T&I are sent to the LABC - same as MOTs are sent to VOSA

There needs to be policing on this! and the only way that will happen is if all EICRs are sent to LABC.

MEICRs will then become like Pre MOTs - advisable and a good idea to check that the Electrics will pass the main MOT when it comes around.

Even Gas should be the same - all notifiable

We have to notify that the work is up to scratch when we do it in the first place so why should we not have to make sure that they comply year after year after year.

If they become notifiable then it wont just effect rentals - it will effect owned properties as well!

And once the database is formed are you going to go down the street fining householders who haven't got an up to date house MOT and insurance as an electrical fire could burn down the neighbours house. Tony Blair as PM was bad enough but going to Eric Blair's 1984 totalitarian state would definitely be a giant step to far

 

[Plonker 3]

Nic the ESC all ready recommend what you are proposing, a EICR every 5 years or change of tenancy. So surely contacting them them for some back up would be a good place to start?


http://www.esc.org.uk/fileadmin/use...guides_and_advice/ESC_Tenants___Checklist.pdf

 

[oldtimer]

Guys just to clarify yes the MEICR does not exist but if you read earlier it was/is meant to be an imrovement of the VEICR (Visual) that does exist and that the Schemies are pushing as an interm check between EICRs as I have said before EICR every 5-6 years with a MEICR on change of tenant instead of the VEICR .

Also note as well as ensuring there is a good Ze ,Zs at the sockets and if applicable ensuring the RCDs are operating because as we all know that test every 3 months sticker is just a get out of jail card you would still be doing a visual.

Now on sayng all of this is it going to happen of course not but I am not comfortable with a VEICR because that will be a drive by and sadly me thinks the Schemies will push for this.Maybe one day they will consult with us instead of handing down a dictate

One last point my reasong for converting the VEICR to a improved MEICR is to add some basic checks to the existing VEICR and to point out that there have been a few incidents where the property has lost its earth due to gas/water pipes being changed to plastic

 

[StuSpiers]

Well if somebody wants to come into my rented house every 5 years and do some half baked EICR which the results will almost be guaranteed to have been made up due to sheer work load, they can nob off.

A rented house is just like any other it falls to the tenant to report any dangerous condition.

Tenants are not allowed to carry out diy without permission/certs.

^ that's what is supposed to happen, does it? - no not always

Is life perfect? - no

 

[UNG]

Des you say this - what will removing Part P do?

The only thing it ill do is give free rain to anyone to do their own electrics without having a requirement to having them checked after!

This is a licence to kill!

Look at the stats and you will see how many lives where saved by Part P coming in!

Yes we still have cowboys doing work without notifying it - but the fault of that lays with the home owner! They should check for NICEIC at least!

NICEIC is widely known and something as easy as a logo on the van or ID is the easy thing- the problem is people dont check!

These customers are opening the door to these cowboys to do bog jobs then they moan because they had been told to spend more money fixing the problems!

The other big problem is some electricians are signing off Joe Blogs work! These are the worst! And there are some on here doing it - they already identified themselves on other posts!

By the same argument what has bringing in Part P achieved any stats for Part P improving safety must be looked at along with the introduction of the 17th edition so which has had the greater effect in improving safety

How can you or any other person suggest that the number of lives saved can be attributed wholly to the introduction of Part P is beyond me, how many people reported an RCD tripping incident that may have killed them i.e. their live was saved and was the RCD fitted because of Part P or the 17th edition or even the 16th edition regs. I'm sorry but you are peddling meaningless stats that are in the public domain to massage public servants egos and bamboozle people like yourself

You quote "NICEIC at least" so can I assume you and your campaign are pushing for a single registration body as well with the NICEIC as your preferred registration body

I was waiting for that Des - Yes I am aware - like I said before the government needs to make a campaign to show home owners how to check if someone is registered

Again like I said before the other problem is that these schemes are in it for the money - nothing else!

Again nothing to do with Part P - its the schemes this time!

The idea of Part P is fine - its how it has been put into place.


I know alot blame the Part P but come on - lets have one person explain why Part P is so bad and what can be done about it to fix it that without having a negative effect on anything else - because I promise you now tif Part P solves the problems that you all say - they will make other problems and the same ones will moan again just because they have to find something to moan about!

and notice its always the same ones - says something!


Come on Im opening this to the floor - post a problem with Part P and a solution for it! - otherwise drop this bloody Part P Moan!

You still have not provided any irrefutable evidence that Part P has achieved anything apart from the baseless stats that you keep quoting in this and other threads. Until we have fully intelligent properties that report why the RCD has tripped or why any other incident occurred in the home then it would be hard to quantify and report accurately whether lives have been saved. Just because the figures show less deaths than the year before is no basis as to whether a particular initiative or law is working or not

You don't need to look very far for the major failing of Part P which is a quick course and then part with some money and become a legitimate registered member of a competent persons scheme may be the registration should detail what competance / experience level these people are at

 

[oldtimer]

UNG let me sum it up for you it is just a big bl00dy mess the last we need is one main Schemie it scares me as it is with the power they weald plus instead of improving our industry they have single handedly undermined it and as for Part P thank god it is not up here and why because they allowed every body and their dog to seek and get registration to such an extent that all they care about is sales and as for removing a membership because of bad workmanship give me a break lets get this abundantly clear it will take a death before they remove someones subscription and also we are all talking like we hope that they will get out of their white castles well my understanding is that they are lurking on this site but they aint going to admit that any day now.

As I see it their job is to guide / advise established businesses and to train and bring on newbies to the business but instead they stand with a big stick telling people to get in line and make sure you are paying your fees they are more interested in breaking up the trade to that many C&G qualifications that buy the way they are only to keen to sell to you to keep them in their gold plated saleries and pensions remember the debacle of the Part P review or in other words yes we know its a mess but we will not admit it so we will call it a review then there is the yes times are hard so lets change the 17th, I&T PAT testing and do some reviews so that these hard pressed clowns will have to buy new COPs,BGB,OSG new certification certificates
and when we are finished with them they will be begging to sign up to the new C&G courses that we will sell them plus we will show that we care by freezing the fees for a couple of years because they will not notice that we are milking them dry so in other words add all this up and we are screwed. So after all that does anybody still want to wear their Schemie badge with pride. I hope they are reading this because I want to see all of this nonsense cut back as a lawer said in the Levison enquiry "would you like to see new laws against phone hacking" and the witness replied no because there is already laws to protect the individual from that we dont need an extra layer of laws. So Schemies think on dont kill the golden goose