Discuss Number of sparks in U.K in the Commercial Electrical Advice area at ElectriciansForums.net

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sorry wayne but the number of sparks is the only way to assess the market place as they are the ones who will be buying it(hopefully). this tool is similar to a conduit bender in the number used, that is to say most firms have one, but there not used everyday. last job i had involved s.w.a cable every week (lighting grids) so i obviously would have bought this.
have spoken to bussiness advisors who repeatedly ask "how many" .doesnt mean they will all want one but its a start point.:(

and every sparks got a knife and hacksaw
 
If I was after the number of punters for your tool, I would look to electrical wholesalers. Anyone in the trade that would use your product would need to be registered with at least one materials reseller. You might even be able to convince them to quote the number of people who have order SWA.and also provide advertising for your product at the same time. I would also look in to who does so much SWA that they would pay for a new tool (yet to be proven safe), does the use of your tool mean a de-skilling of the fitter? This could be a selling point but might leave you open to being dragged into court and hence higher insurance costs. Are you willing to guarantee your product will A) never cut the wrong insulation B) work with all sizes and types of SWA
 
Sorry to burst your bunnle Mr B but there are a couple of SWA strippers on the market allready. I use one allmost everyday and they are available from most wholesalers. I use the one fro Kew Technik.
 
. Anyone in the trade that would use your product would need to be registered with at least one materials reseller.

erm.....why?:confused:

Hi everyone, does anybody know how many electricians there are in England , Scotland, Wales and Ireland? The minimum level is City and Guilds installation A. Not required to have part P or N.I.C registered etc.
Waddya think?

Ok, now i know what context the question is asked in, you have really gone off kilter

You seem to be implying:-

A. The minimum qualification for stripping SWA is C&G installation A.

and

B. Part P or NIC registered people do not/cannot strip SWA

Fella, it seems the questions you need the answer to are:-

A. How many people install SWA in the UK

and

B. How many of those people would want to buy a dedicated stripper (that havent already bought a dedicated stripper)

Unfortunately, the questions you DID ask bare absolutely no relation to the ones you would NEED to ask:confused:

Something is tingling on the back of my neck as to why you think it is neccessary to narrow potential customers down to a certain qualification bandwidth????

I teach domestic installers, and teach them how to strip and prepare SWA, but you have excluded them from your potential market?

ah well, you are the business man, I guess you know what you are doing

good luck;)
 
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Hi Guys and Gals,

Just a quicky - when i started in the electrical game the "sparks" was the sad sod that sat in a dark room all on his own sending messages in morse code!

Strange people they where as well. I was known as the "Lecky" and was responsible for everything from the generators on the ship to the captains wifes iron!

Four hours on - eight off for nine months at a time - plus stacks of overtime (unpaid) whilst in port.

Take my word for it the life of a domestic installer is soooooo easy. Who really cares how many "Lecky's" there are - the general public say there ain't enough and the tradesmen reckon there is too much competion! Does it really matter as long as we are all making a living?
 
hi mbarret, I see where your coming from, because your marketing this product at those who use SWA, AND electricians who don't use SWA but could potentially go into using SWA alot. Maybe you need the range of figures, of

how many electricians there is
how many use SWA
how SWA has increased/decreased in the last few years?
as for how many electricians there is, I wouldn't know where to start.
theres a website i came across which sed the shortage: came up with 36,000 across the uk. You could ask the registering bodies like niceic, napit etc, of how many they have.

Well I'll be the first to try it out, and show support to you matey, can send one over if you like ;)

whats the estimated cost? size? life of the product?

Regards,

Luke
 
thanks for the input gents,
the tool is hand held, 8" tall and weighs about 1kg. it cuts the outer insulation and steel strands on cable from 8mm to 50mm safely and accuratley as you control the depth of cut. unsure of cost but hope to be sub £50 mark. have found 4 other strippers for s w a ,the kew technik blade runner is the cheapest but is not in the same league and i would not buy one.
when trying to establish the market size it seemed logical to think that only electricians would work with s w a ,as insurance and regulations would prevent others from doing. another question i have to ask is does s w a get used elsewhere in the world? again this would reflect on market size and reduce the cost of the tool as its cheaper to make 100,000 than 1,000.
gonna try some of your suggestions and thanks for your thoughts
 
when trying to establish the market size it seemed logical to think that only electricians would work with s w a ,as insurance and regulations would prevent others from doing. [/quote]

here we go again

so what has your C&G installation A got do with it?

and why would 'insurance and regulations' prevent 'others' from using SWA

your market is clearly people who use SWA

and that is most defintely NOT limited to people who fit into your tightly defined box

Domestic installers?
Electricians mates?
maintenance electricians?

Under Part P, there is nothing to stop joe bloggs running SWA up his garden to feed his shed, but he is not a potential customer of yours?

Sorry, but i am not convinced that you actually know your (potential) market at all

most 'electricians' would strip SWA using traditional hacksaw and stanley knife anyway, so the chances are your market could well be the 'less qualified' end of the spectrum

good luck mate, i think you are going to need it:eek:
 
maybe you could ask members on the forum to try the product and answer a questionaire or maybe write a report on how it compares to traditional methods.

I'd be willing to give it a go :)
 
He just wants to know if anyone has any idea how many electricians there are in the UK.

Simple.

Why so many people trying to sh*t on his idea?
 
Give 01952 290029 a ring, ask for marketing on final distribution products and they will have the answer to your question. It's the telephone number of Merlin Gerin and I know that they have this information. If no joy there, which is doubtful, dare I suggest you give the NIC a ring, it's the same market they are alienating, sorry attacking. :eek:
 
A real spark would not understand what an swa stripper is, it takes 20secs with a hacksaw? why buy a tool? It is bull****...now hydraulic cutters they are the bees knees and every spark would like (i'm not talking bootlace cable) cut 95mm or more with a hacksaw it makes you sweat, when you have several a day to terminate it really kills you..(when as old as me -;)
As for spark numbers, the etu has lost 100,000 members over the past ten years, granted maybe 50% of members were not sparks. When I first joined they said 25% of all sparks in the country were members, on that I would guess there is 150,000 registered real sparks in the uk today, probably double that none-qualified chancers.
 
He just wants to know if anyone has any idea how many electricians there are in the UK.

Simple.

Why so many people trying to sh*t on his idea?

no he didnt Bane, he wanted to know how many 'electricians' of a particular qualification level there were, and also deliberately excluded certain types of registered tradesman

the implication clearly is that only certain qualifications allow you to use SWA

and as i have said, in my opion he has got it back to front, most 'real electricians' wouldnt use a dedicated stipper anyway, it is more likely to be the less experienced end of the market

i am not sh**ing on his idea, I am trying to stop him looking like a right muppet when he doesnt make dollar one because he doesnt know his market
 
A real spark would not understand what an swa stripper is, it takes 20secs with a hacksaw? why buy a tool? It is bull****...


if you can do it this quickly you dont need one!
when i started out as an apprentice we stripped t+e, singles with our pliers/sidecutters, today there are tools that do it(strippers) that are very popular and most wouldnt be without them.
from the replies on here im not sure how you quantify a "real spark".
what i do know is that i have terminated a lot of s w a and there is a definite need for this tool on safety,accuracy and speed.
SHAKEY you really dont get it do you? this is a tool for use on s w a cable ,it would be reasonable to assume that "qualified" electricians would be using it. i sure as hell would not let someone touch any of the wiring in my house without seeing proof of minimum level of training .
i would not expect d i y ,domestic installers(what the hell are they) or non qualified chancers to be usng s w a .
i am a maintenance electrician now and do not think that i will be terminating s w a cable for some time , and for the record i am city and guild part 1+2 ,16th edition ,pat testing andfull apprenticeship trained. doing 17th soon.:mad:
 
A real spark would not understand what an swa stripper is, it takes 20secs with a hacksaw? why buy a tool? It is bull****...


if you can do it this quickly you dont need one!
when i started out as an apprentice we stripped t+e, singles with our pliers/sidecutters, today there are tools that do it(strippers) that are very popular and most wouldnt be without them.
from the replies on here im not sure how you quantify a "real spark".
what i do know is that i have terminated a lot of s w a and there is a definite need for this tool on safety,accuracy and speed.
SHAKEY you really dont get it do you? this is a tool for use on s w a cable ,it would be reasonable to assume that "qualified" electricians would be using it. i sure as hell would not let someone touch any of the wiring in my house without seeing proof of minimum level of training .
i would not expect d i y ,domestic installers(what the hell are they) or non qualified chancers to be usng s w a .
i am a maintenance electrician now and do not think that i will be terminating s w a cable for some time , and for the record i am city and guild part 1+2 ,16th edition ,pat testing andfull apprenticeship trained. doing 17th soon.:mad:

oh, i get it marty, i get it perfectly

and why wouldnt domestic installers be using SWA?

I teach the EAL Domestic Electrical Installers course, and the course quite specifically requires the student to prepare and terminate SWA

If you dont know what a domestic installer is, then like i said, you dont know your market

and by the way, the strippers for Tw&E? most wouldnt be without them?

ok, ask then, ask the forum users if they use a deciated stripper or traditional methods? I think i know the answer

your claim that there is 'definetely a need for this tool on safety, accuracy and speed'

so why then, when there are already SWA strippers out there, do most guys on this forum state they still use traditional tools?

Mate, i have no idea what your tool looks like (no pun intended), you are tryng to make some money, and good luck to you, but i dont think you are going to make dollar one by excluding your potential market based on specific qualification levels

my feelings are that tools such as this 'deskill' the tradesman, I would not let my students use one, they have to learn their handskills using tradtional methods

and well done on the qualifications by the way

WELL DONE

and good luck:)
 
my feelings are that tools such as this 'deskill' the tradesman, I would not let my students use one, they have to learn their handskills using tradtional methods

shakey have just looked up the E A L course and applaud you for teaching those who come on the course .
its quite rare to be using s w a cable in a domestic enviroment but take your point that it is another potential user.
10000s of years ago man built things with crude tools, then we learnt to improve things and now we have electric drills,electrical testers etc etc this tool is far superior to any of the other s w a strippers
it is safer,faster and more accurate than present method and with the way things are today would have to be used . employers have a duty of care to minimise danger/accidents.
still dont have any real idea of how many potential users there is!!!!!!!!
 
my feelings are that tools such as this 'deskill' the tradesman, I would not let my students use one, they have to learn their handskills using tradtional methods

shakey have just looked up the E A L course and applaud you for teaching those who come on the course .
its quite rare to be using s w a cable in a domestic enviroment but take your point that it is another potential user.
10000s of years ago man built things with crude tools, then we learnt to improve things and now we have electric drills,electrical testers etc etc this tool is far superior to any of the other s w a strippers
it is safer,faster and more accurate than present method and with the way things are today would have to be used . employers have a duty of care to minimise danger/accidents.
still dont have any real idea of how many potential users there is!!!!!!!!

Marty, SWA may be more common than you think in domestic, such as supplies to sheds/garages, garden lighting etc

and of course, under the 17th, it may become even more common in cases where use of an RCD is not wanted:p

cant really see it ever getting to the point where you would 'have' to use one to satisfy H&S requirements though, and that is why it is inportant to learn basic handskills, for risk mitigation

I have been in and out of teaching since my mid twenties, and have always been insistent on students learning the basic handskills, they can use the 'easy' tools when they are working themselves, but feel it is vitally important that they have the 'old ways' to fall back on

So, if there is a lesson to be learned here, i guess its knowing your target customer base, and as i have said, I feel that is a lot wider than full 'electricians' with certain qualifications

and like i said, good luck;)
 
marty ,a stripper for t&e where? ive asked this question a couple of times ,even suggested you invent one but no one has come forward with an answer
 

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