PIR 16th Vs 17th please clarify

[Spudnik]

That`s the problem - we have NO legal right to isolate.........

Indeed, although i think most people would probably understand if it came to it, especially if one pointed out the risks and/or dangers.

 

[old dog]

any immediately dangerouse condition should preferably be rectified.if not,
the defect should be reported in writing without delay to the employer or
responsible employee

( see regulation 3 of the electricity at work regulations 1989 )

if a code 1 is allocated to an observation, idicating that it requires urgent attention, then
the overall assessment must be that it is unsatisfactory. an example of this is an installation wuich has no earth.
if a codes 2 or 3 are allocated the person carrying out the test will have to use judgement to determine whether or not
the installation can be classed as satisfactory

 

[DHES-LTD]

I always code 4 no rcd protection.

 

[alphaelec]

can i do minor works certification without 17th qualification?

 

[spark1]

You can complete Minor Works Certificates without actually holding a 17th ed .qualification.The requirement to issue a MWC is so as to certify that your work is,in simple words, safe,and it is generally recognised that if the work complies with bs 7671 then this will be the case.....without the qualification though you would be hard pushed to prove you were competant if the need arose.


spark1

 

[alphaelec]

You can complete Minor Works Certificates without actually holding a 17th ed .qualification.The requirement to issue a MWC is so as to certify that your work is,in simple words, safe,and it is generally recognised that if the work complies with bs 7671 then this will be the case.....without the qualification though you would be hard pushed to prove you were competant if the need arose.


spark1

I have had the 16th ed.qual.since 1998 would this satisfy my local council?

 

[scotsparky]

I have had the 16th ed.qual.since 1998 would this satisfy my local council?

It may help to show experiance but there has been changes and even if you know your job the council will want paperwork

 

[alphaelec]

It may help to show experiance but there has been changes and even if you know your job the council will want paperwork

basically I've tested a kitchen refurb. that was done 5yrs ago by a spark who didn't leave certification ..now the council want one..but I'm concerned that because I don't have my 17th ed. yet ,they might reject the certificate I've issued ,even though I have the 16th and have been testing for years including large goverment offices and factories etc.,

 

[spark1]

It wont be a Minor Works Certificate that the council require, and you could not issue one for the Kitchen refurb even if the work only merited a Minor Works Certificate ,as you did not install it. The paperwork the council require now can only be a Periodic Inspection Report...which you can issue on the existing Kitchen refurb....noting any departures as and where necessary.


spark1

 

[Spudnik]

The council generally will only accept a PIR if they agree to it.

You will need to contact them first, as there is a particular way of doing this.

 

[spark1]

I think a conversation with the council first is the right way forward if not already done so, however a 5 year old job without an E.I.C is only going to get a P.I.R now isnt it ...? and its a pre "Part P introduction installation so cant see any probs with the Council.


spark1

 

[greavsie]

I think that an abscence of an RCD should be a code 4, but if when you fill out the tick boxes and in particular Presence of an RCD you then have to put a cross. Any crosses on the PIR the installation becomes unsatisfactory. What does anyone else do?

 

[stephenf8542]

What does this tell us about the 17th edition when you've got so many experiened guys and no two answers the same!
How can this make for safer installations when everyones interpretation can be valid

 

[dkent5]

As a rule of thumb, should I do a visual inspection and immediately see that the installation is too outdated, I would give a Code 1 and advise a complete rewire. Why continue testing when you know that you're going to come across so many departures?

 

[m4ttyd]

yes you could do that..... but then someone like myself comes along finds exactly whats wrong and probably undercuts your price to fix it..... which loses you work.... so up to you.... your being paid to do a full report so do one!

 

[dkent5]

I was thinking more along the lines of 13th edition installation which was mentioned earlier. A good guess is, if it could be put right at that age without a re-wire I would be willing to let anybody undercut me and crack on.

 

[m4ttyd]

yea of course any thing like rubber cable or no cpc e.t.c. u will see straight away and obvi its fail...

 

[scotsparky]

I was thinking more along the lines of 13th edition installation which was mentioned earlier. A good guess is, if it could be put right at that age without a re-wire I would be willing to let anybody undercut me and crack on.

yea of course any thing like rubber cable or no cpc e.t.c. u will see straight away and obvi its fail...

Remeber folks PIR are a report only. AS has been said before its not a pass/fail. you are being paid for your technical knowlage in pointing out faults and deviations in current regulation. As a tester you cannot shutdowm an intallation. The only thing you can do is test to current standards and give a list of RECOMENDATIONS only. If you give him a price as well to do the job that is seperate he doesnt even have to do the work but h&s may have a word if there is any future problems. as long as you have told him the faults your covered.

 

[m4ttyd]

thanks for the lesson mate the report is still a fail

 

[scotsparky]

m4ttyd the report is not pass fail its Satisfactory or non satisfactory. Any class 1or 2 and its non satisfactory.

All faults and codes listed with any agreed limitations and shedules and thats is no pass Fail.