Request To Work Live

[uksparks]

Hi,

You know all these batteries I have been hooking up for these PV arrays....

Well the customer now wants me to hook them up to the distribution board.

Me: Ok I no problem, Ill need to power everything off to do it.

Customer: Thats not possible, you will have to work live.

Me: O...k, not something I would like to entertain to be honest

Customer: The people who installed the PV worked live, they took the cover off, drilled holes in the box and connected it all up.


Anyway, so this is in a office unit, where that are I think 4 companies ranging from a joiners, this power systems company, graphic designers, and the local radio station...

He is saying not a chance it can be switched off.

But I am saying not a chance am I touching a Three phase board, drilling a hole in the side for SWA termination and doing it all live, no way, im not flaming stupid.

I think this will be where we go out separate ways.

he said the PV people did it all live, personally I don't care what they did, I am not doing it.

What would you do? I am right to say no aren't i? Working live is not something I am happy with, its not that I am not capable, but it only takes your baby finger to accidentally touch a live part and thats it, lights out! its just not worth the risk to keep him happy.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

You have probably given the officially correct answer. But there was a time when we would have just cracked on with it, taking suitable precautions and using appropriate techniques. I wonder, though, what will happen when you connect batteries to an AC DB ?! Or do you mean the inverter / UPS...

 

[Sparkymark123]

Apologies if I'm misunderstanding here, but are you simply terminating a SWA into a three phase db? Obviously you have to make a judgement call, the age and degree of protection in the distribution board will no doubt form part of your decision. Must say I more often than not have to make final connections into live fuseboards though. I guess it would be nice to only work on dead installations but it's not realistic for most Sparks surely?

 

[uksparks]

You have probably given the officially correct answer. But there was a time when we would have just cracked on with it, taking suitable precautions and using appropriate techniques. I wonder, though, what will happen when you connect batteries to an AC DB ?! Or do you mean the inverter / UPS...

Yes I mean the inverters!

The building is about 50 years old, and more than likely got a crappy old DB at a guess, I doubt its a shiny new one for one minute.

I do not feel comfortable doing it, but if I look at it and its suitably covered and I feel there's enough space to work safely then I will think about it.

its not just that, but half the time when you remove covers from DB's the cover catches the edge of the breakers etc and flicks them off, so that may be more of a problem having an unplanned outage.

Id say the best solution would be do it in the evening over a weekend, in reality, its only the radio people that probably care.

 

[Leesparkykent]

How are you hooking it up? If the batteries are for storage off the pv then isn't it going to be installed on the circuit/dc side of the PV?

 

[Pete999]

Apologies if I'm misunderstanding here, but are you simply terminating a SWA into a three phase db? Obviously you have to make a judgement call, the age and degree of protection in the distribution board will no doubt form part of your decision. Must say I more often than not have to make final connections into live fuseboards though. I guess it would be nice to only work on dead installations but it's not realistic for most Sparks surely?

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=electrical+shock+accidents These might change your mind,

 

[nickblake]

Answer is no you dont, one mistake and your dead not worth it , simple as im sure the HSE wouldnt be happy ,and i certainly dont want to here of an electrician being killed stand your ground and state it has to be isolated

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Tom, you've said in your OP that you would definitely not do it. Then after 2 replies you've gone to 'thinking about' and then to when the best time of day would be to do it. Lucien is obviously someone who has spent his whole life working with electrics and knows exactly what to do working live, I expect its second nature to him.

I'd have a real think about this and the way forward. If this is the battery project you have going on then I expect you are going to do it anyway regardless of what is written in the replies you are about to get. Just be careful chap, I like your threads!

 

[Guest77]

We used to flick the back of our fingers on live cables when we were apprentices lol, only 240 volt low current circuits of course haha, that said please never attempt it it is dangerous.

 

[Leesparkykent]

I'm interested to know how its being hooked up because I would of thought it would only need the PV circuit isolating and not the whole building.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

We used to flick the back of our fingers on live cables when we were apprentices lol, only 240 volt low current circuits of course haha, that said please never attempt it it is dangerous.

Jesus Christ Mike!! That's just going to encourage him!!

As a matter of interest... What did it feel like? Tingle? massive shock? Somewhere in between?

 

[Pete999]

You can be as unconcerned as you like about working live, if you have ever witnessed, or been part of an electrocution accident, then you would never work live, ever it aint worth it believe me.

 

[Guest77]

Jesus Christ Mike!! That's just going to encourage him!!

As a matter of interest... What did it feel like? Tingle? massive shock? Somewhere in between?

Working on live kit is a serious thing, you need a method statement and risk assessment in place and need the correct tools, years ago it was a common thing to do, thank god today we have safety conciderations in mind before carrying out any work live, I have connected equipment live a few times, I would add today there is no real need to do so for an electrician, I would always avoid doing so, today we have saftey measures in place 25+ years ago we didn't have, and I am delighted about that.

 

[GMES]

The world as gone mad, if I told all my industrial customers that I was shutting down their site to do a little job I would have none left, I suppose it is whatever you're comfortable doing.
@ MDJ I always preferred using my tongue, but yes back of finger was the most popular lol.

 

[uksparks]

To be honest as much as I say I'd consider it, it's never going to happen as I'm not that stupid, I appreciate I said I'm consider it but it's not going to happen.

its a straight forward no, he will need to get someone else to do it if he wants it connecting.

 

[uksparks]

I'm interested to know how its being hooked up because I would of thought it would only need the PV circuit isolating and not the whole building.

The he board serves the entire building, all in one three phase board for all 4 units, with no sub boards, it's a poor layout. Anyway, it needs two new circuits putting in.

I'll tell him not a chance, he will have to switch it off.

 

[Guest77]

Jesus Christ Mike!! That's just going to encourage him!!

As a matter of interest... What did it feel like? Tingle? massive shock? Somewhere in between?

I have had some bad belts in my time steve, the worse believe it or not was at a school in Stroud, your neck of the woods, I disconnected 2 neutrals in a switch when I was just out of my time when the switch was on and I ended up making the circuit, it was switching 8 6ft fluorescent lights, I had a terminal screwdriver in my hand at the time and the shock made me flinch quite violently, the screwdriver ended up stuck in the door the other side of the room, the senior spark on the job gave me a good --- kicking, I learnt my lesson regarding neutrals and fluorescents.

 

[uksparks]

I had a bit of a zap in my very own home, I'd been doing the bathroom and moving walls around, put a new drop down for a light switch in back room, connected looft light up etc, and forgot I'd left a drop for a switched it back on, went back upstairs, switched landing light on, yep ok, check loft light, yep ok, went it back room and caught the back of my hand on cut wire, I felt it but not enough to trip the RCD.

 

[Guest77]

Jesus Christ Mike!! That's just going to encourage him!!

As a matter of interest... What did it feel like? Tingle? massive shock? Somewhere in between?

Over at pagan hill in stroud there used to be a factory called the pattern centre, I believe you have a co-op there now, it is quite close to the fire station near whites hill, I was about 17 and the guy who was training me was working on some old heavy switch gear, the very old orange painted type, the boards were 15 ft up in the air in the main factory. We had a tower up to them, he asked me where I thought the live parts in the board were, Like a fool I touched the busbar and said here to him at the same time here,I fell to the floor due to the shock, funnily enough it never hurt that time lol, he then asked me what the hell I thought I was doing, I said you said where are the live parts, he said I asked you to tell me not show me haha, I was just a kid really and never did that again.

 

[7029 dave]

Safe isolation.