Rogue Landlord Encounters

[KevinH]

Has anyone had encounters with rogue landlords?
I will tell my short story (and keep it as short as possible)

I had a call a few weeks back from a landlord to sort out an issue with an immersion heater following an "incident".

It seemed an emergency so I arrived that afternoon and the tenant, a middle aged Eastern European lady, let me in and explained (as best she could) that the landlord had fitted a plugtop to the immersion heater on the day she moved in to give hot water.

When I looked in the airing cupboard, I found an unrecognisable big black blob of melted mess that used to be a plug and socket where the 20A DP should have been. (Wanted to attached a pic, but it says the file is too large). After having a quick scan around the property, I noticed the tell tale signs of a rogue landlord. A pendant hanging from the ceiling supported by the cables, a cracked socket, no smoke alarms, and my favourite, a 3036 Re Wirable fuseboard. Not an RCD in sight!

I got straight on the phone to the landlord and explained the situation, of what had to be done, and completely unfazed, his reply was "can you just get the hot water back on and I will pay you cash", to which I replied "I can't do it today, I will have to return tomorrow".......

Ok, so I lied! I never had any intention of returning, as I have come across these type of landlords before who cut corners, totally ignore the safety of tenants and risk of a fire, and of course expect everything done for pennies...often not paying at all. I have not got the time of day for them!

Suffice to say that I informed Electrical Safety Roundtable, politely advised the tenant to find another landlord, blocked his number from my phone and walked away.

Should I feel guilty for leaving the lady with no hot water? How are these landlords getting away with it?

 

[DPG]

There have been some wild sweeping comments on this thread.

With the state of some EICRs recently some people might say all electricians are cowboys. I'm sure you wouldnt agree with that though.

It's not good getting angry and letting emotion win over sense.

For disclosure, I have been a landlord for around 15 years. My tennants have never had any issue that haven't been sorted promptly. On the other hand I had one lot of bad tennants to deal with.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Landlords are people as well, they just want paying for a service they provide, they have invested in a property and offered it to others to live in, if you truly believe your LL is a rouge, move.

 

[James]

Its Often not an easy decision to make.
For instance, I have a family member who is renting a house for him, his wife and 2 children (one of which is seriously special needs)

The state of the house is poor but not terrible
they have been trying for weeks to get a faulty tap fixed but no assistance so far, constantly leaking onto the counter then onto the floor where they are mopping it up regularly.

the electrics are a mess, whole house is on a single 30mA rcd that has been bypassed by 2 loops of cable from intake to output.

Obviously as I am not within a part P scheme, i have not disconnected the loops to see if the rcd is faulty or if there is a genuine fault but my "expert visual analysis" leads me to suspect a fault with the house wiring.

If I were to write up an EICR for the property it would be marked as UNSATISFACTORY.
they have no recent gas cert, no electrical cert, however the the landlord has made it clear that any troubles with the legal side of things will lead to the house being sold.
they cant afford to move so are therefore Fooked or other word that sounds a little like it.

Its not easy for people renting, some landlords are just not doing what is required of them.
I understand that some landlords are also having trouble with tenants so its not all one way, a proper legal structure that regulates landlords and tenants would possibly be a step forward but all the bad ones would avoid registering.

 

[LukeD]

Its Often not an easy decision to make.
For instance, I have a family member who is renting a house for him, his wife and 2 children (one of which is seriously special needs)

The state of the house is poor but not terrible
they have been trying for weeks to get a faulty tap fixed but no assistance so far, constantly leaking onto the counter then onto the floor where they are mopping it up regularly.

the electrics are a mess, whole house is on a single 30mA rcd that has been bypassed by 2 loops of cable from intake to output.

Obviously as I am not within a part P scheme, i have not disconnected the loops to see if the rcd is faulty or if there is a genuine fault but my "expert visual analysis" leads me to suspect a fault with the house wiring.

If I were to write up an EICR for the property it would be marked as UNSATISFACTORY.
they have no recent gas cert, no electrical cert, however the the landlord has made it clear that any troubles with the legal side of things will lead to the house being sold.
they cant afford to move so are therefore Fooked or other word that sounds a little like it.

Its not easy for people renting, some landlords are just not doing what is required of them.
I understand that some landlords are also having trouble with tenants so its not all one way, a proper legal structure that regulates landlords and tenants would possibly be a step forward but all the bad ones would avoid registering.

And it will be getting worse ..... Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire .

 

[davesparks]

Its Often not an easy decision to make.
For instance, I have a family member who is renting a house for him, his wife and 2 children (one of which is seriously special needs)

The state of the house is poor but not terrible
they have been trying for weeks to get a faulty tap fixed but no assistance so far, constantly leaking onto the counter then onto the floor where they are mopping it up regularly.

the electrics are a mess, whole house is on a single 30mA rcd that has been bypassed by 2 loops of cable from intake to output.

Obviously as I am not within a part P scheme, i have not disconnected the loops to see if the rcd is faulty or if there is a genuine fault but my "expert visual analysis" leads me to suspect a fault with the house wiring.

If I were to write up an EICR for the property it would be marked as UNSATISFACTORY.
they have no recent gas cert, no electrical cert, however the the landlord has made it clear that any troubles with the legal side of things will lead to the house being sold.
they cant afford to move so are therefore Fooked or other word that sounds a little like it.

Its not easy for people renting, some landlords are just not doing what is required of them.
I understand that some landlords are also having trouble with tenants so its not all one way, a proper legal structure that regulates landlords and tenants would possibly be a step forward but all the bad ones would avoid registering.

Have they/you spoken to shelter about this?

They may be able to offer some help and advice.

If they are within the fixed term of their tenancy then it may be that any sale of the house just transfers the tenancy to a new landlord and doesn't result in their having to move.
There's a lot of if's but's and maybe's to it all so proper advice is needed.

 

[James]

the only advice given to them is that they should take the landlord to task with it, however they wont do anything until the tenant has made all reasonable attempts to sort it.
if they made attempts to sort it, they would be homeless.

the charity's and the advice from the council is both the same,
if you are homeless, We will house you in a B and B until a permanent solution is found.

however, how would you like to be causing a stink that makes you homeless on the promise that you will be sheltered in a hotel room until suitable accommodation is found when you have been on the waiting list for suitable accommodation for 9 years and nothing has been found?

Its easy to provide advice but tough to receive and act on it.

not knocking the good advice given but pointing out the flaws in the "system"

p.s. I have a plan to help them but need to spend another couple of years saving the capital to do it.

 

[brianmoooore]

Obviously as I am not within a part P scheme, i have not disconnected the loops to see if the rcd is faulty or if there is .....

No requirement to be a member of a scam to test the installation, or produce an EICR. Scam membership only needed if you replace the whole CU.

 

[davesparks]

the charity's and the advice from the council is both the same,
if you are homeless, We will house you in a B and B until a permanent solution is found.

I hadn't realised shelter would be quite as helpless as the council.

I didn't suggest speaking council as I'm well aware of how little they can actually do.

You are probably already aware, but the council will only put them into emergency housing if they are actually evicted with the whole court order + bailiffs circus.
If they leave before proper eviction occurs then they would be deemed as 'voluntarily homeless' and therfore not eligible for emergency housing from the council.

however, how would you like to be causing a stink that makes you homeless on the promise that you will be sheltered in a hotel room until suitable accommodation is found when you have been on the waiting list for suitable accommodation for 9 years and nothing has been found?

I wouldnt, and they do have my sympathy.
I do realise how lucky I am that the flat I rent is habitable and isn't old enough to have deteriorated much.
The only repair I've had to do is to the kitchen sink waste after it finally failed when the landlord ignored the cracks in it for 6 months.

p.s. I have a plan to help them but need to spend another couple of years saving the capital to do it.

That's brilliant to hear, the world needs more people like you!

 

[Mike Johnson]

A leaking top, good grief, get off your butt and do something about it your self.

 

[James]

A leaking top, good grief, get off your butt and do something about it your self.

I get what you’re saying,
however, every penny I spend fixing his landlords property is a penny lost towards helping them get there own home.

 

[LukeD]

A leaking top, good grief, get off your butt and do something about it your self.

And thats the issue in the Uk it seems .landlords seem to think they hold the cards and everyone is there to just pay the rent or get removed . As long as people dont fight for or demand their rights etc .Its going to get worse .

 

[Mike Johnson]

And tenants seem to think they can call the landlord just because a screw has come loose on a door, I know who I think has a loose screw.

 

[DPG]

And thats the issue in the Uk it seems .landlords seem to think they hold the cards and everyone is there to just pay the rent or get removed . As long as people dont fight for or demand their rights etc .Its going to get worse .

And again, you are making sweeping statements about groups of people.

 

[DPG]

I heard a landlord once who got so fed up with the renters so what he did was, he shoved himself up a chimney

Ah the old 'climb up the chimney trick'.

 

[LukeD]

And again, you are making sweeping statements about groups of people.

yes..... And from my experiences in London I am right . many many landlords are doing all they can to evade their responsibilities and to hold tenants at ransom . And MANY been from certain parts of society that seem to naturally evade anything legal ! Also landlords Borrowing against the income and then wanting the tenant to pay those costs as well . The whole rental market needs better control . Its a joke at the moment .

 

[littlespark]

You started off with UK landlords.... then London.... Any particular area? Street?

I'm with DPG... Its not all landlords

 

[LukeD]

You started off with UK landlords.... then London.... Any particular area? Street?

I'm with DPG... Its not all landlords

Not all ...And you know that .......! But I am seeing and hearing a lot more about bad landlords. It seems clever ones have sold their properties and moved their money into something a little less easier to deal with .Now the laws and tax thing is making life harder for them . And those that are left,many seem to be getting greedier by the day . And its all down to lack of control and councils not been too worried . Sure you get feckless tenants that think a light bulb has to be changed or they can really start changing decor etc etc . But combine in useless management agencies who hire in the lowest of the lowest to carry out repairs . Its all a race to the bottom in many cases . Landlords should also be vetted and have to supply references from previous tenants .Also a tenant should be able to see if the landlord is having any issues paying the mortgage etc . Why should all the "due diligence " be a one way street .Ive known many tenants have banks turning up etc to say they now own the property (Which tends to work out fine ) as the landlord over cooked their spendings and responsibility . But imagine after 8 months you find the landlord has taken the rent and not paid the mortgage and you might be facing issues .

 

[Mike Johnson]

Not all ...And you know that .......! But I am seeing and hearing a lot more about bad landlords. It seems clever ones have sold their properties and moved their money into something a little less easier to deal with .

Now that I don't understand.]

I am hearing more and more about rouge tenants taking advantage of decent landlords and the rules laid down by local authorities, using racist and asylum excuse's.

This seems to be a very a-motive subject for @LukeD is this personal experience or all second hand knowledge?

 

[LukeD]

Now that I don't understand.]

I am hearing more and more about rouge tenants taking advantage of decent landlords and the rules laid down by local authorities, using racist and asylum excuse's.

This seems to be a very a-motive subject for @LukeD is this personal experience or all second hand knowledge?

Are the experiences you mention personal or all second hand knowledge ?

 

[Pretty Mouth]

A leaking top, good grief, get off your butt and do something about it your self.

And tenants seem to think they can call the landlord just because a screw has come loose on a door, I know who I think has a loose screw.

Presumably you think you have a right to receive 100% of the rent, while expecting your tenants to carry out your maintenance for you?

 

[LukeD]

Presumably you think you have a right to receive 100% of the rent, while expecting your tenants to carry out your maintenance for you?

Exactly !! The maintenance of the property is the landlords responsibility and also tend to be mentioned in the contracts that a tenant must notify them of any issues . Light bulbs etc unless they are at a height that require a large ladder to replace are NOT the landlords responsibility .etc . Yes there are many scum tenants .But as mentioned by someone else many have the full set of "Wacist cards etc " to throw on the table and use against good or bad landlords. THis could be part of the current issue we see in the media now about people unhappy about the level of immigration and the types we are letting in . So many other European countries do the "letting" business better than us by a long way and both sides win. In the UK its a mess . Muammer Gaddafi who was a great leader (Dont believe the west media !) solved many issues in Libya By removing renting . Overnight all tenants became the legal owners of the property and the "old owners" where paid the market value of the property . You then had a society who where not worried about keeping a roof over their head .


By this time next year we will see a major issue in the housing market and those made homeless might not be getting nice warm hotels like these "Economic migrants" are getting !

 

[DPG]

Exactly !! The maintenance of the property is the landlords responsibility and also tend to be mentioned in the contracts that a tenant must notify them of any issues . Light bulbs etc unless they are at a height that require a large ladder to replace are NOT the landlords responsibility .etc . Yes there are many scum tenants .But as mentioned by someone else many have the full set of "Wacist cards etc " to throw on the table and use against good or bad landlords. THis could be part of the current issue we see in the media now about people unhappy about the level of immigration and the types we are letting in . So many other European countries do the "letting" business better than us by a long way and both sides win. In the UK its a mess . Muammer Gaddafi who was a great leader (Dont believe the west media !) solved many issues in Libya By removing renting . Overnight all tenants became the legal owners of the property and the "old owners" where paid the market value of the property . You then had a society who where not worried about keeping a roof over their head .


By this time next year we will see a major issue in the housing market and those made homeless might not be getting nice warm hotels like these "Economic migrants" are getting !

So he suddenly gave houses to people who hadn't bought them? For free?

So then they can live there for free, but the rest of the people still have to pay their mortgage every month?

Something not quite right there I feel.

 

[LukeD]

So he suddenly gave houses to people who hadn't bought them? For free?

So then they can live there for free, but the rest of the people still have to pay their mortgage every month?

Something not quite right there I feel.

The owners as I mentioned where paid the market value . Also in 78 there was no real "Mortgage " system in Libya . He also paid for all education for any national studying abroad (and related costs ) and the best medical treatment anywhere in the world. But thanks to the the USA getting upset with him The USA Called on their "minions" to destroy Gaddafi . So be very careful what you read about him . he had some faults .But he was a great leader .

 

[DPG]

The owners as I mentioned where paid the market value . Also in 78 there was no real "Mortgage " system in Libya . He also paid for all education for any national studying abroad (and related costs ) and the best medical treatment anywhere in the world. But thanks to the the USA getting upset with him The USA Called on their "minions" to destroy Gaddafi . So be very careful what you read about him . he had some faults .But he was a great leader .

You said the tenants were made legal owners of the property. So presumably they were either given it for free, or they were forced to pay for it.

 

[LukeD]

You said the tenants were made legal owners of the property. So presumably they were either given it for free, or they were forced to pay for it.

Gaddafi made it law that anyone living in a rented property would become the FULL legal owner of that property and it was FREE. The "original " owner was then paid the market value for the property . Also things like Business loans where made interest free etc etc .TO help build the economy . Ive been there a few times and Loved the place.

 

[DPG]

Gaddafi made it law that anyone living in a rented property would become the FULL legal owner of that property and it was FREE. The "original " owner was then paid the market value for the property . Also things like Business loans where made interest free etc etc .TO help build the economy . Ive been there a few times and Loved the place.

Yes, so back to my original comment then - people who were renting got a free house, but everyone else had had to pay for theirs. I don’t see how that's a fair system.

 

[LukeD]

Yes, so back to my original comment then - people who were renting got a free house, but everyone else had had to pay for theirs. I don’t see how that's a fair system.

True...But its possible the ones who owned their homes might be richer and have had business loans etc .So they benefitted by having the costs of loans removed. Gaddafi made laws to try and benefit everyone . . Name another country that would pay for a citizen to be flown to the UK /France etc for the best private medical treatment and the state would pay the bill ! Gaddafi 's idea was if you feed everyone , some for sure might get lobster and some might only get lamb and rice. But at least everyone feels they are better off .

 

[DPG]

True...But its possible the ones who owned their homes might be richer and have had business loans etc .So they benefitted by having the costs of loans removed. Gaddafi made laws to try and benefit everyone . . Name another country that would pay for a citizen to be flown to the UK /France etc for the best private medical treatment and the state would pay the bill ! Gaddafi 's idea was if you feed everyone , some for sure might get lobster and some might only get lamb and rice. But at least everyone feels they are better off .

As you say, it is 'possible' that some of them 'might' have been richer people. But by and large most home owners will be average people working for a living. Not really fair that someone who has just paid a bit of rent then gets a free house, when the other people have to pay full price for theirs.

I suspect there is more to how it worked to be honest. Otherwise there would be uproar I would have thought.

 

[Mike Johnson]

I suspect there is more to how it worked to be honest. Otherwise there would be uproar I would have thought.

You mean protests under a Gaddaffi regime?

 

[DPG]

You mean protests under a Gaddaffi regime?

He's a decent feller apparently

 

[Mike Johnson]

His five point plan:

On 16 April 1973, Gaddafi proclaimed the start of a "Popular Revolution" in a speech at Zuwarah.[151] He initiated this with a five-point plan, the first point of which dissolved all existing laws, to be replaced by revolutionary enactments. The second point proclaimed that all opponents of the revolution had to be removed, while the third initiated an administrative revolution that Gaddafi proclaimed would remove all traces of bureaucracy and the bourgeoisie. The fourth point announced that the population must form People's Committees and be armed to defend the revolution, while the fifth proclaimed the beginning of the Cultural Revolution in Libya, to expunge the country of "poisonous" foreign influences.[152] He began to lecture on this new phase of the revolution in Libya, Egypt, and France.[153] As a process, it had many similarities with the Cultural Revolution implemented in China.[154]