Shower in a shop! Do zone regs apply?

[sparkenter]

We've just been asked to install a shower to a back room in a shop to wash dogs...
It's a pooche parlour!
The room has 3 double sockets one located about a foot from the doggy bath/ shower area.
All circuits are RCD protected and we're gonna blank off the closest socket.

Not sure on the regulations regarding the other 2 as they are only 6 feet max away from the bath.

Do we class it as a bathroom??

 

[Engineer54]

Darkwood, .... haven't seen a combined wash station/work station for years now. These stations have been separated for years, where generally the apprentice washes the hair at the wash station and semi dries the hair with towels prior to moving the client to the work station where the hairdresser works on the damp hair. Obviously different treatments have different procedures, but rarely these day's, all is conducted at one station....

 

[Darkwood]

our town still has red phone boxes.... and we just got our first delivery of bs3036 boards at the local hardware shop.. woo hoo coming at yer technology, were back in the race

 

[Adam W]

So what are you suggesting that all hairdressing saloons be classed as special locations??
I think it was Des who suggested:

However,a room containing a shower is a special location and all the rules of the special location apply,without exception

As for a pooch parlour the OP has stated that the closest outlet is going to be blanked off.
6 feet distance is more than adequate in this situation, hell on the continent, it's common practice to have an RCD protected socket outlet in bathrooms. It's only the UK that has these draconian bathroom Reg's, that are a throw back from the past, before the advent of the cure all RCD... lol!!

I was considering citing the American way of doing things where they allow one of those weird little 'standard' American sockets in a bathroom or utility room provided it is a 'GFCI receptacle', otherwise known as a socket supplied via a higher rated RCD (0.2ms disconnection, possibly 10ma, from memory after a couple of beers).
I didn't say that before because I've mentioned American regs previously and been bluntly reminded that we don't live in America.

 

[richy3333]

I was considering citing the American way of doing things where they allow one of those weird little 'standard' American sockets in a bathroom or utility room provided it is a 'GFCI receptacle', otherwise known as a socket supplied via a higher rated RCD (0.2ms disconnection, possibly 10ma, from memory after a couple of beers).
I didn't say that before because I've mentioned American regs previously and been bluntly reminded that we don't live in America.

LOL, It might feel like the wild west but has anyone told you this ain't America

 

[Adam W]

LOL, It might feel like the wild west but has anyone told you this ain't America

LOl yes I'm well aware of that thanks. :59:

 

[sedgy34]

this thread has legs until england win the world cup!!!

 

[telectrix]

them legs will have to last a long time then.

 

[sedgy34]

ok hyperthetical example here,

mr spoon has a near fatality in the bathroom (no clothes on) regulation from bgb

mrs spoon 12months later has near fatality at hairdressers (clothes on) regulation common sense
maybe an area in a salon for hand showers not next to the sockets like they are now. bit of a grey area

 

[sedgy34]

our town still has red phone boxes.... and we just got our first delivery of bs3036 boards at the local hardware shop.. woo hoo coming at yer technology, were back in the race

and you have mr george galloway lol

 

[richy3333]

ok hyperthetical example here,

mr spoon has a near fatality in the bathroom (no clothes on) regulation from bgb

mrs spoon 12months later has near fatality at hairdressers (clothes on) regulation common sense
maybe an area in a salon for hand showers not next to the sockets like they are now. bit of a grey area

Was it the butler with the length of pipe in the library?

 

[Darkwood]

and you have mr george galloway lol

Luckily not, its a generalization is Bradford as location although im BD postal code im in Kirklees so thank god that self righteous, contradictory muppet isn't my elected member.

 

[Engineer54]

I was considering citing the American way of doing things where they allow one of those weird little 'standard' American sockets in a bathroom or utility room provided it is a 'GFCI receptacle', otherwise known as a socket supplied via a higher rated RCD (0.2ms disconnection, possibly 10ma, from memory after a couple of beers).
I didn't say that before because I've mentioned American regs previously and been bluntly reminded that we don't live in America.

I know what you mean... lol!! Unfortunately those receptacles you speak of, are for 115V only. The trip level level being 5/6mA... If people are that worried having a socket outlet in a UK bathroom they could always provide a higher level of protection from a 10mA RCBO...

Virtually the whole of Western Europe allow RCD protected socket outlets in the wash basin vicinity!! In fact i honestly can't remember anywhere overseas where i've stayed or lived, that hasn't had a socket outlet for the wash basin area in a bathroom, apart from those countries that follow BS7671 of course!! ..lol!!

 

[Adam W]

Ah but we can though, in the form of a shaver socket supplied via an isolating transformer, which is why I suggested that earlier.
Personally I prefer the American way of doing it, because if the householder wants a radio/fan heater in the bathroom then they're going to 'rig one up' which usually involves running it in from outside the bathroom, which seems a lot less safe than having it plugged in in the bathroom and protected by a 10ma (or similar) rcd.

If the ceiling mounted 'body dryer' idea is out of the question I think the way forward in this dog grooming parlour situation could be either to comply with the regs by using SELV equipment (hairdryers) or a socket fed from an isolating transformer, or to fit suitable (IP rated) sockets as far away as reasonably practical 'so as to prevent danger' and feed them from a 10ma rcd/rcbo, preferably with 0.2s disconnection time, and list it as a departure.
This to me seems safer than showering the dog outdoors, where technically you could have a hairdryer in one hand and a garden hose in the other.

I don't think leaving the installation with no sockets 'because the regs prohibit them' knowing full well that the customer is only going to run in an extension lead as soon as you've gone, is a responsible thing to do.

 

[sedgy34]

Was it the butler with the length of pipe in the library?

If only the length of pipe was bonded lol

 

[sparkenter]

Opened a can of worms here haven't I!:teeth_smile:

As it turns out we have installed the shower in the back room next to the doggy bath, blanked off(as we can't remove ) the two closest sockets using an ip65 enclosure. We have left in a double socket which conveniently is 3.2m away from the enclosure and added a double socket outside the room so the owner can run a lead in if required( although we have strongly advised against doing this)

The best part is when we tested the installation we found that the PME had never been connected in the cut out and the 20+ year old installation had never been earthed. The engineer on site was even getting shocks From the laptop!

 

[palmerelectrcal]

on this issue... Some of the stainless steel dog baths have an electric motor to elevate them. this is controlled with foot pedals...the 13amp plug comes on a 2m flex...!!!
in this instance im going to feed this into the adjoining kitchen and term on a 13 f/s outlet.

 

[Darkwood]

A bit late to this party palm' its a 2 year old thread :blush5:

 

[Geordie Spark]

I saw the title and thought someone had installed a shower in Fenwicks shop window.

( Trev will explain ... )