supply to brick lights from mains electric gate?

[David999]

Hi all I have only recently qualified and would appreciate some advice re wiring PIR brick lights and surface mounted PIR lights on two electric gate posts on either side of sliding gate. My question is can I break into the incoming 230V supply to the gate controller if I use a fcu for lights on each post? Each post will have its own dedicated fcu. I would have to connect the spur to the supply in the controller box as the supply cable is buried under the drive. The reason for 2 fcu's is that there is a second 230v cable at the other pillar (for the remote) which originates from the gate (motor) controller box. This would save me having to bury a cable under the drive. So in essence I would be tapping into the mains on either side of the gate. The gate supply has its own dedicated 2way CU box which is RCD protected. Thanks for your help.

 

[Wilko]

Hi - you may find the gate is already on a 3A FCU, just saying. Is there anything that makes you think you can’t use the existing supply? ( it seems ok to me )

 

[R-fur]

I agree with wilco, although gates often have a 13A supply, still wouldn't be a problem. What controls the lights?

 

[Pete999]

Hi all I have only recently qualified and would appreciate some advice re wiring PIR brick lights and surface mounted PIR lights on two electric gate posts on either side of sliding gate. My question is can I break into the incoming 230V supply to the gate controller if I use a fcu for lights on each post? Each post will have its own dedicated fcu. I would have to connect the spur to the supply in the controller box as the supply cable is buried under the drive. The reason for 2 fcu's is that there is a second 230v cable at the other pillar (for the remote) which originates from the gate (motor) controller box. This would save me having to bury a cable under the drive. So in essence I would be tapping into the mains on either side of the gate. The gate supply has its own dedicated 2way CU box which is RCD protected. Thanks for your help.

Wouldn't think so no not a good idea recently qualified eh, May be a bit more experience is required David 999 Rome wasn't built in a day, I' m sure you will make a fine Electrician but more experience is required Mate. Only time will tell keep asking the questions, what experience and quals do you hold? More information could be beneficial.

 

[David999]

Hi - you may find the gate is already on a 3A FCU, just saying. Is there anything that makes you think you can’t use the existing supply? ( it seems ok to me )

Thanks Wilko you mean without using a fcu?
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I agree with wilco, although gates often have a 13A supply, still wouldn't be a problem. What controls the lights?

The lights will be on PIR's and possibly Dusk to Dawn sensor. For maintenance the MCB
Thanks
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Wouldn't think so no not a good idea recently qualified eh, May be a bit more experience is required David 999 Rome wasn't built in a day, I' m sure you will make a fine Electrician but more experience is required Mate. Only time will tell keep asking the questions, what experience and quals do you hold? More information could be beneficial.

Hi Pete would be helpful if you could qualify why you don't think so. What additional info do you need?

 

[westward10]

The OP has come on here to ask a question, not a question of their competence. Can we keep the posts relevant to the query. Multiple posts removed.

 

[David999]

I'm just wondering if David999 is sufficienty skilled enough to take on this work ,no way am I saying he isn't.

Basically Pete you are more concerned about whether or not I am a diyer posing as a recently qualified electrician instead of trying to help me out with some sound advice. Am I wrong?

 

[Strima]

What is the OCPD for the supply circuit?

 

[David999]

What is the OCPD for the supply circuit?

Hi Strima, please see attached file

 

[Strima]

TBH tapping in is not ideal however practically it makes sense. If there's a fault then the lights and gate lose power, not the end of the world as the gates should be able to be operated manually.

I would use double pole SFCU for the lights so they could be isolated in case of an earth fault and also for local maintenance.

 

[David999]

Thank you Strima! any idea where i can source a double pole SFCU with an ip rating of 55-66? Cheers!

 

[telectrix]

Thank you Strima! any idea where i can source a double pole SFCU with an ip rating of 55-66? Cheers!

youcan use a suitably sized IP rated ad. box to fit the SFCU in. summink like :

Schneider Electric 10-Entry Rectangular Junction Box with Knockouts 172mm x 129mm x 87mm - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. Grey, plastic construction with a smooth face. Functional box with cable entries for cable glands. FREE next day delivery available, free collection in 1 minute.

www.screwfix.com

 

[David999]

Thanks Telectrix I was looking for one that had an easy accessible switch but guess it would do the trick. And as there is already such a box on one pillar I will only need to fit one. Thanks for taking the time.

 

[Jim_e_Jib]

Thank you Strima! any idea where i can source a double pole SFCU with an ip rating of 55-66? Cheers!

BG make one that is reasonably priced: BG 13A FCU w/ Neon - https://www.screwfix.com/p/bg-13a-fcu-w-neon/27437#product_additional_details_container

 

[David999]

BG make one that is reasonably priced: BG 13A FCU w/ Neon - https://www.screwfix.com/p/bg-13a-fcu-w-neon/27437#product_additional_details_container

Thanks Jim Spot on! Much appreciated.

 

[SJD]

TBH tapping in is not ideal however practically it makes sense. If there's a fault then the lights and gate lose power, not the end of the world as the gates should be able to be operated manually.

I would use double pole SFCU for the lights so they could be isolated in case of an earth fault and also for local maintenance.

Many brick lights are not noted for reliability, and it is more a question of when they fail, rather than if.

I have customer who has brick lights either side of the gates (4 lights, one each side of the entrance drive and the exit drive). Everything is on one circuit. Although it is possible to isolate the brick lights in the gate control box, the customer is not really able to open the box up and do that (he is elderly). So when a light fails, he has to have someone wind one of the gates open manually and leave it open, creating a security risk. Otherwise he is locked in/out of his property.

So if you have to share the power between the gate(s) and brick lights, bear in mind how the bricks can be easily isolated by a non-skilled person. And bear in mind the occupier might be in or out of the property when the power trips.

 

[David999]

Many brick lights are not noted for reliability, and it is more a question of when they fail, rather than if.

I have customer who has brick lights either side of the gates (4 lights, one each side of the entrance drive and the exit drive). Everything is on one circuit. Although it is possible to isolate the brick lights in the gate control box, the customer is not really able to open the box up and do that (he is elderly). So when a light fails, he has to have someone wind one of the gates open manually and leave it open, creating a security risk. Otherwise he is locked in/out of his property.

So if you have to share the power between the gate(s) and brick lights, bear in mind how the bricks can be easily isolated by a non-skilled person. And bear in mind the occupier might be in or out of the property when the power trips.

Thanks SJD very valid point to consider. If the 3 amp fuse in the SFCU blows without the incoming gate supply MCB tripping then presumably it wouldn't affect the gates. But if the MCB trips then the gate will have to be operated manually. Is this a sufficiently significant issue to bring in a new supply just for the lights? Or the alternative, solar powered brick and surface mounted PIR lights?

 

[DefyG]

Hello David,
Why PIR operated, is that so they only operate when accessing the gates?
If so there are probably auxiliary contacts for switching such things as lights that operate when the gates open/close inside the control box and therefore standard non pir fittings will do.
May be a problem with light on opposite side, although may still be possible to use the existing cable for the same depending upon how many cores it contains! or use of a wireless switching arrangement.

 

[David999]

Hello David,
Why PIR operated, is that so they only operate when accessing the gates?
If so there are probably auxiliary contacts for switching such things as lights that operate when the gates open/close inside the control box and therefore standard non pir fittings will do.
May be a problem with light on opposite side, although may still be possible to use the existing cable for the same depending upon how many cores it contains! or use of a wireless switching arrangement.

Thanks DefyG I appreciate your input. Yes so PIR and possibly dusk to dawn sensor is mainly for lighting up the drive for gate access. However the original installation which is now defunct had a switch inside the house. So client would prefer this option. However too much is involved in rewiring from the house. So other option is like you say a wireless remote. I doubt there is provision in the control box otherwise it would surely have been fitted when they fitted the gate which is now quite old. But no harm in asking the manufacturers. The cable running to opposite pillar is 3 core and there is an additional cable for the sensor. Thanks

 

[SJD]

Rather than whether it is a 3A fuse blowing or the MCB tripping, the RCD for the gate & new brick lights is perhaps more likely to trip as water, soil, worms, slugs or insects fill up one of the brick lights.

 

[David999]

Yes you have a point thanks!
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Rather than whether it is a 3A fuse blowing or the MCB tripping, the RCD for the gate & new brick lights is perhaps more likely to trip as water, soil, worms, slugs or insects fill up one of the brick lights.

What do you think of solar powered option such as this?

 

[SJD]

My experience of solar powered lights is the batteries tend to be dead after a year or two.

 

[David999]

My experience of solar powered lights is the batteries tend to be dead after a year or two.

Yes still a much cheaper option for client. At least I can give him some options. Thanks.

 

[ruston]

Yes still a much cheaper option for client. At least I can give him some options. Thanks.

I wouldn't be wanting to tap into the gate supply unless it is your last option.
Opening the gates manually could be a chore for an elderly person with no knowledge of how to do it.
As @SJD, slugs and water can be a real pain. I had this problem on a friends gates during the recent wet period . Even though the gate box had been well sealed they still managed to get in.

 

[Mike Johnson]

My Neighbour has electric gates, but our power grid is unreliable (France) the problem is the lady of the house in her 30's can't manually open the gates, it's a Allen key needed to unlock the mechanism, it seems this is a constant problem with electric gates, anyone know if there is a solution?

 

[ruston]

UPS or standby Genny

 

[Mike Johnson]

UPS is a possibility as they do have a barn alongside the gates, I will suggest that to her husband next time he is home, bit of a Doh moment on my part.

 

[Pete999]

Basically Pete you are more concerned about whether or not I am a diyer posing as a recently qualified electrician instead of trying to help me out with some sound advice. Am I wrong?

Yes you are, but it does cross your mind sometimes, anyway my answer was to try ascertain, if you like, what level you were are at, in the Electrical ways, I always do try to see what level people are at, or what their experiences are, and I have in the past been admonished, for what some see as being blunt and to the point.
You seem to have all the help you require, so I will wish you good luck and apologise, as you seem to have misunderstood the meaning in my previous post.