Discuss Time for a new Electricians' union? in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Ernie Bevin

New EF Member
Messages
2
Location
Earth
Is it time a skilled trade like ours started our own union? Not part of Unite, not Unison, or any of the other other general unions but something that only accepts skilled C&G qualified sparks into membership?
 

Pete999

Mentor
Electrician's Arms
Messages
22,989
Location
Northampton
Is it time a skilled trade like ours started our own union? Not part of Unite, not Unison, or any of the other other general unions but something that only accepts skilled C&G qualified sparks into membership?
What in the same mode as the American Electricians TU?
 

Taylortwocities

Electrician's Arms
Messages
2,292
Location
Oxfordshire
Is it time a skilled trade like ours started our own union? Not part of Unite, not Unison, or any of the other other general unions but something that only accepts skilled C&G qualified sparks into membership?
You mean, like the competent electrician schemes? What would be the point/advantage of your “union”?
 

Pete999

Mentor
Electrician's Arms
Messages
22,989
Location
Northampton
You mean, like the competent electrician schemes? What would be the point/advantage of your “union”?
Well for large multi Electrician companies TUs offer protection against missuse bt Management, but I can't see a use for one man bands
 

Pete999

Mentor
Electrician's Arms
Messages
22,989
Location
Northampton
an ex TU rep I can see the benefits in large firms that recognise TUs for negotiating Pay, etc, the one I was repping for was "PROSPECTfi" a union for Professionals they were good but not specifically for Electricians
 

anthonybragg

Electrician's Arms
Messages
4,452
Location
NORTHAMPTON
There used to be EPTU or something like that which was for electricians which merged and become Amicas that become UNITE.
I did see a youtube video with two blokes talking to Paul Meadem? of E5 who had started up a union for electricians I think.
 

westward10

In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream.
Staff member
Moderator
Mentor
Electrician's Arms
Trainee Access
Messages
11,939
Location
Northamptonshire
Still have my EETPU book somewhere. The Electrical, Electronic, Telecommunications and Plumbers trade union.
 

Des 56

Mentor
Electrician's Arms
Messages
7,688
Location
Gliese 581C
The ETU, my union,was responsible for one of the biggest betrayals of worker by fellow worker in the history of unions

Wapping was the name and shame was the game,I resigned from that union after their actions in cutting the throats of their fellow workers and was ashamed to admit it had at one time represented me
 
OP
E

Ernie Bevin

New EF Member
Messages
2
Location
Earth
Interesting responses -the sins of former organisations are not an argument against a future organisation. I think the big general unions we've ended up with have lost all focus in representing trades. For example, as a sole trader I think the lobbying on behalf of the industry with government is hopeless. I am mug enough to pay to be in a CPS. I am commercially undermined all the time by people who do electrical work without carrying this cost. These people are breaking the rules (arguably the law). I want this stopped. Is this too much to ask? Contrast with the rights of lawyers, pilots or doctors, who have hung on to their TRADE union.
 

Paignton pete

Regular EF Member
Messages
978
Location
Over the rainbow
You don’t need trade unions to stop the undermining. Just better policing. ( I don’t mean the actual rossers)

As for sins of the former organisations. Yes I may not be being fair on future organisations, but I will need a lot of convincing.

Traditionally Trade unions demand more money, more holidays, higher pensions, better working conditions.

The only one I agree with is better safer working conditions.

Money and holiday demands without any thought to the business model and wether the business can afford to trade with these demands have always destroyed business.

Wages should be dictated by demand and availability.

If you don’t like you lot in a company leave go elsewhere. If there isn’t anywhere else to go stay and stop moaning, you’ve got a job be grateful.
 

Pete999

Mentor
Electrician's Arms
Messages
22,989
Location
Northampton
It is my thought that for a TU for Sparkies it has to have 100% involvement otherwise it won't work, TUs are perfect for large conglomerates and should be involved with Senior Management, for things like Pay, Holidays, H&S, T&Cs etc, for Sole traders I can't in all honesty see being a member of a TU being of any use to the Trader.
I personally believe that a Professional body is needed with the involvement of the IET, SCAMS sorry Schemes, JIB, examination bodies, C&Gs as an example, to monitor and look after the needs of the many.
Thereby comes to the problem with my idea, there are far to many Sole traders who, don't belong to a Scheme, or don't have the relevant qualifications to be called electricians, there needs in my opinion a radical upgrade of the CPSchemes and others to make representation for Electricians, or any other Trade for that matter work, to be of use to anyone, a very good idea OP but not something that is viable in the age of pick up some tools and become an instant Tradesperson.
With due respect to Paignton Pete, and I understand his frustration, his statement is so far from the modern way of working in todays climate, having a job and keeping it is a laudable idea, but employees need protecting otherwise we will end up back in the dark ages, sorry Pete.
 

Paignton pete

Regular EF Member
Messages
978
Location
Over the rainbow
Hi pete999
I respect your opinion.
I just feel the pendulum has swung too far in the employees direction.
The employers and industry are the ones that need a bit of protection now in order for them to give employees jobs.
If it swings back the other way I may come out on the unions side.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DPG

Pete999

Mentor
Electrician's Arms
Messages
22,989
Location
Northampton
Hi pete999
I respect your opinion.
I just feel the pendulum has swung too far in the employees direction.
The employers and industry are the ones that need a bit of protection now in order for them to give employees jobs.
If it swings back the other way I may come out on the unions side.
Fair enough PP
 
  • Like
Reactions: DPG

Pete999

Mentor
Electrician's Arms
Messages
22,989
Location
Northampton
Fair enough PP
In addition to my Fair enough Petem from my experiences as a TU rep, many Unions especially the larger, more well known ones, are also wised up n Employers' right, I can see tour point though, in the cases I dealt with, it was quite a few, some disciplinary, some Ts&Cs some pay issues, the Union always involved management in all issues, and the outcome of many of these cases, weren't sympathetic to the individual, in fact in some cases I dealt with it was often the case of the individual being told to abide by the rules set out by the company, and stop being so childish, or words to that effect. Yes I agree companies need protection as well, which is why, in my opinion ALL parties, Employers and Employees need to be involved at all times.
I guess where you are coming from (only a guess) involves the smaller Companies 1 Man Bands and the like, where disputes are quite often of a personal nature.
Employees' need protection at times but some how I don't think Unions for Employees would work, after all they are more than likely the reason why Employees seek TU help, I reckon in the case of Employers; needing help should come from some sort of Directors Professional bodies, as well as help and advice from the CP Schemes. Like I said these CP Schemes along with the industry as a whole need a shake up, I guess you can see from the tone of my post, I'm not a great fan of these CP Schemes, far to many to be any good, one licensing body is all that is needed, funded and Managed HMG and not Money grabbing leaches, funding their lives by leaching money from hard working Electricians, sorry for the Rant, my juices are flowing, time for another Coffee methinks.
 

snowhead

Respected Member
Mentor
Trainee Access
Messages
3,784
Location
Mildlands
There are a few basic hurdles to overcome in setting up a new Trade Union.

It's a Business, so it will need initial investment for setup costs, whoever invests will want to see a return on their investment.

The Business is basically protecting rights of members, so will need to employ experts in employment Legislation, Health and Safety Legislation etc.
It will also need to retain the services of Legal Professionals in those fields.

It will need local representatives, who will need paying for thier time, transport and admin costs whilst on Union work.
They'll need Phones and computer equipment.

It will need a membership to pay subscriptions.

It will need agrement with employers to act on thier employees behalf.

It will get resistance from other Unions representing the same sector.

The list goes on and on but fails at the first hurdle, who is going to want to invest in it with little or no return.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DPG

KennyKen

Electrician's Arms
Messages
363
Location
Australia
I’m in the ETU in Australia and Pay Dues.

Being a part of a Union is generally a good thing. I don’t like elements where lazy workers whinge about menial things to stop the job but I do agree on fair pay above award rates. The ETU fight for fair wages and Holiday pay and Big companies sign an enterprise bargain agreement (EBA) that outlines rates of pay. OT rates etc... if the companies had it there way they would pay dog biscuits and have negotiated wages and conditions. All of which create animosity between colleagues.

I don’t agree with “You have a job, be grateful” mindset. I’ve seen too many companies who enjoy the race to the bottom especially in the UK. Where they would rather employ a non licensed sparky because he charges 50 quid a day.

At least here to be awarded a large contract you have to abide by paying fair wages and employees who are union based are fully licensed and abide by there duty to perform an excellent standard of electrical work.
 

anthonybragg

Electrician's Arms
Messages
4,452
Location
NORTHAMPTON
I’m in the ETU in Australia and Pay Dues.

Being a part of a Union is generally a good thing. I don’t like elements where lazy workers whinge about menial things to stop the job but I do agree on fair pay above award rates. The ETU fight for fair wages and Holiday pay and Big companies sign an enterprise bargain agreement (EBA) that outlines rates of pay. OT rates etc... if the companies had it there way they would pay dog biscuits and have negotiated wages and conditions. All of which create animosity between colleagues.

I don’t agree with “You have a job, be grateful” mindset. I’ve seen too many companies who enjoy the race to the bottom especially in the UK. Where they would rather employ a non licensed sparky because he charges 50 quid a day.

At least here to be awarded a large contract you have to abide by paying fair wages and employees who are union based are fully licensed and abide by there duty to perform an excellent standard of electrical work.
Sounds like it works well for both parties everyone knows where they stand and what they are getting paid.
 

Permanent unswitched live colour?

  • Brown

    Votes: 59 66.3%
  • Black

    Votes: 30 33.7%

Electrician Talk

Electrical Forum

Welcome to the Electrical Forum at ElectriciansForums.net. The friendliest electrical forum online. General electrical questions and answers can be found in the electrical forum.
Top