Scolmore Electrical Products
This official sponsor may provide discounts for members

Discuss Tips for my first niceic inspection in the Certification NICEIC, NAPIT, Stroma, BECSA Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Welcome to ElectriciansForums.net - The American Electrical Advice Forum
Head straight to the main forums to chat by click here:  American Electrical Advice Forum

Hi people. I’ve got my first niceic inspection in a few weeks. Any advice on what to expect? What type of installations to show them? Any tips to get through it smoothly would be greatly welcomed.

Thanks fellas ( and girls )
 
uHeat Banner - Forum Discount Available
This official sponsor may provide discounts for members

Charlie_

-
Arms
Remember you are paying them for their services...
Don’t be nervous, turn the tables on the asessor and use it as an opportunity to assess them..
Ask him questions and see what his knowledge is like, ask him about new sections of the regs like SPDs,etc..
Talk about their notification set up, how reliable it is, server problems and whatnot..
You know your jobs and set up is all good, otherwise you wouldn’t be going for membership, relax and don’t waffle...
 
Yeah don’t be nervous. Nice pile of paperwork ready. Certs for the jobs you are going to. If office audit is good then it starts day of well.
Don’t -------- , if you are unsure if anything ask for their advice as they love demonstrating their knowledge. Are you going ac or di ?
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7
Thanks for the advice fellas. Some good nuggets of info there I’m going for the ac. I’m assuming this means twice as much grilling?
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8
I don’t really do much private work to be honest as up until now I haven’t really needed to and also i wanted to be able to self certify before I started doing pw. Obviously this is going to make the whole process a little more difficult. I was hoping to use my home as the job. Is this exceptable. I’ve done a full rewire and then an office extension, plus loft conversion. The contractor I’m sub contracting from currently told me he was able to get away with using his home as the example job but this was for domestic installer not approved
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9
Also one thing I’ve been unable to find any concrete answers for is the distance of a distribution board to a gas meter. Mine are currently both in the same 900 square cupboard and almost touching. I’m aware of the 150mm distance hearsay that goes round but like I say, I don’t seem to be able to find any concrete evidence for this
 

davesparks

-
Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
Also one thing I’ve been unable to find any concrete answers for is the distance of a distribution board to a gas meter. Mine are currently both in the same 900 square cupboard and almost touching. I’m aware of the 150mm distance hearsay that goes round but like I say, I don’t seem to be able to find any concrete evidence for this
As far as I know 150mm.is not hearsay, it is from the GSIUR
 

davesparks

-
Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
he was able to get away with using his home as the example job but this was for domestic installer not approved
You can use your own premises as on eof the sample jobs.
If it is a domestic installer registration then one domestic job is required.
If it is an approved contractor registration then it needs to be 3 sample jobs demonstrating the full spectrum of work you carry out, not just domestic work.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13
I put the fuseboard next to the gas meter I didn’t really have much of an option unless I was going to put the fuseboard on show in my kitchen. I was thinking about building an enclosure around the gas meter using fire proof boarding? I was under the impression that as long as there was a non combustible barrier between them that was ok?
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14
You can use your own premises as on eof the sample jobs.
If it is a domestic installer registration then one domestic job is required.
If it is an approved contractor registration then it needs to be 3 sample jobs demonstrating the full spectrum of work you carry out, not just domestic work.
I was told by the niceic that I could do one board change, one eicr and one partial or full re-wire. I did purposefully ask if one needed to be in an commercial or industrial environment and they told me domestic would be “ok”. I’ll wait to hear what the actual inspector says when they call me too book a date in.
 
You’ll be fine with all domestic. An EICR is good but really ensure your report is accurate as my inspector even had me working out csa and copper equivalent of a 6mm steel bolt. No need for commercial as some ACs never do anything but domestic. The engineers are pretty good guys and don’t mind if you have a few gaps in knowledge, as long as you’re safe and working to a good standard, and you know where to find what you don’t know you will be golden. Always get them talking about their work history as it fills the awkward spaces between jobs etc. Good luck
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #16
You’ll be fine with all domestic. An EICR is good but really ensure your report is accurate as my inspector even had me working out csa and copper equivalent of a 6mm steel bolt. No need for commercial as some ACs never do anything but domestic. The engineers are pretty good guys and don’t mind if you have a few gaps in knowledge, as long as you’re safe and working to a good standard, and you know where to find what you don’t know you will be golden. Always get them talking about their work history as it fills the awkward spaces between jobs etc. Good luck

Thanks for the advice mate I’ll bare it all in mind
 

buzzlightyear

-
Arms
Esteemed
Make sure your wifey or girl or boyfriend is ready first in bed.
And leave a apple on the table just in case to ram it down is throat in case you dont pass.lol.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #19
Are the nic going to want to see an approved voltage tester and proving unit? Or can I get away with using my fluke t5-1000 and proving it on a known source when doing safe isolation, which I’m assuming you’ll have to show?
 

Midwest

-
Arms
Esteemed
When I did my Elecsa assessments (domestic), I used a known source to do safe isolation. However, I did have a proving unit also. If you’re doing commercial/industrial, or new builds, there might be an occasion when you won’t have that known source, so why not get yourself a proving unit. You are responsible for your safety.:)
 
It’s a good idea fro have one but you will be ok proving your meter on incoming, isolated outgoing and then back to your known incoming.
 

Charlie_

-
Arms
I have never used a proving unit.
Hang on, I think I did when I done my testing and inspection assessment..
The trouble I have with proving units is that I don’t trust them.
 

davesparks

-
Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
I have never used a proving unit.
Hang on, I think I did when I done my testing and inspection assessment..
The trouble I have with proving units is that I don’t trust them.
What do you do when a live supply isn't readily available or safely accessible?

That's why you prove the avi before and after testing, it shows that both the avi and proving unit are working.
 

davesparks

-
Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
Are the nic going to want to see an approved voltage tester and proving unit? Or can I get away with using my fluke t5-1000 and proving it on a known source when doing safe isolation, which I’m assuming you’ll have to show?
Have you read through the niceic's guidance for new applicants? Questions like this are answered there.
 

Charlie_

-
Arms
What do you do when a live supply isn't readily available or safely accessible?

That's why you prove the avi before and after testing, it shows that both the avi and proving unit are working.
What I have done for the last 27 years is test the supply before isolating and then test it again after isolating it.. Then test the primary side again..
I have never been in a situation where I need a proving unit. I personally wouldn’t put my life or any one else’s in the hands of a proving unit..
 

Midwest

-
Arms
Esteemed
What I have done for the last 27 years is test the supply before isolating and then test it again after isolating it.. Then test the primary side again..
I have never been in a situation where I need a proving unit. I personally wouldn’t put my life or any one else’s in the hands of a proving unit..
There must be occasions however, when you test your supply before isolating and a tester indicates the supply is dead. How do you prove the voltage tester is not faulty, without access to a know live supply?
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #29
To be honest I’ve always tested on a known live supply. I can’t think of any situation I’ve been in where there’s not a known live supply somewhere in the near vicinity. Personally I have more than one voltage indicator/testing device on me at any one time so if there’s any doubt i can always test with another to verify
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #30
There must be occasions however, when you test your supply before isolating and a tester indicates the supply is dead. How do you prove the voltage tester is not faulty, without access to a know live supply?
In my opinion this scenario could continue forever. 15 testers/proving units/voltage indicators down the line there is still no way of truely proving that all the instruments are in perfect working order
 
I personally do not own a proving unit , I carry 2 volt pens and a multi meter / martindale , so 3 fail safes and I have proved dead this way for over 20 years now.

If all 3 fail me then so be it....

However if the Scams insist on a proving unit for the site visit then I would buy a cheap one for assessment day to 'tick the box'
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #32
I personally do not own a proving unit , I carry 2 volt pens and a multi meter / martindale , so 3 fail safes and I have proved dead this way for over 20 years now.

If all 3 fail me then so be it....

However if the Scams insist on a proving unit for the site visit then I would buy a cheap one for assessment day to 'tick the box'
This is probably the best bet and was what I was intending to do I just wanted to check if anyone knew for sure either way.
 

Midwest

-
Arms
Esteemed
In my opinion this scenario could continue forever. 15 testers/proving units/voltage indicators down the line there is still no way of truely proving that all the instruments are in perfect working order
I’m all for the standard approach to safe isolation, by proving on a known source. My point is, that if you place your tester on your known source, and your tester does not light up, what do yo do then?
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #34
I’m all for the standard approach to safe isolation, by proving on a known source. My point is, that if you place your tester on your known source, and your tester does not light up, what do yo do then?
I would give it a second check with an alternative test instrument. Even if it’s a volt pen.
 

Des 56

-
Arms
Esteemed
There are different "accepted" methods for proving isolation for electricians

There is only one single 100 % assured means of removing all danger of never getting it wrong,its a little drastic so cover your ears


The person needs to earn a living in a different occupation
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #36
There are different "accepted" methods for proving isolation for electricians

There is only one single 100 % assured means of removing all danger of never getting it wrong,its a little drastic so cover your ears


The person needs to earn a living in a different occupation
Lol I would have to agree
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #37
Let’s face it there are times when you don’t really have a choice but to work live. If you can stay safe in this scenario then worrying about 100% sure safe isolation becomes a little obsolete
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #38
Even after I have safely isolated a circuit I will still give the end I’m working on a going over with a volt stick or the old quick touch technique lol just to be sure
 

davesparks

-
Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
Let’s face it there are times when you don’t really have a choice but to work live. If you can stay safe in this scenario then worrying about 100% sure safe isolation becomes a little obsolete
What times are those? If you are working live then you will be following a very detailed plan of the work written specifically for the task and will be using temporary insulation, fully insulated tools etc and wearing suitable fire resistant clothing, arc shields etc. None of this makes safe isolation a 'little bit obsolete'

Anyway, I thought you said earlier you only do domestic? There's never a need to work live in domestic work!

Working live is only really going to be considered when paying out the compensation for killing someone is cheaper than the loss of profit from shutting down production.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #42
What times are those? If you are working live then you will be following a very detailed plan of the work written specifically for the task and will be using temporary insulation, fully insulated tools etc and wearing suitable fire resistant clothing, arc shields etc. None of this makes safe isolation a 'little bit obsolete'

Anyway, I thought you said earlier you only do domestic? There's never a need to work live in domestic work!

Working live is only really going to be considered when paying out the compensation for killing someone is cheaper than the loss of profit from shutting down production.
Firstly I didn’t say safe isolation would ever be obsolete, I said ensuring it’s 100% guaranteed safe (which isn’t achievable as someone previously stated) becomes obsolete.

If your working on an apartment in an occupied block of flats, are you going to shut the entire building down purely to work on that one flat? I’ve been in this situation and even after knocking on each apartment to ask if shutting down the power is ok, there is still atleast 1 or 2 that you can’t get into. I always use fully insulated tools and would use temporary insulation but I can honestly say I have never found the need to wear fire proof clothing and use arc shields when working in a domestic or commercial environment.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #43
And also I never said I only do domestic. I said I very rarely do private work as I am not currently able to self certify and personally don’t feel like I should be out there doing my own work unless I can fully test and self certify it afterwards.
 

davesparks

-
Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
Firstly I didn’t say safe isolation would ever be obsolete, I said ensuring it’s 100% guaranteed safe (which isn’t achievable as someone previously stated) becomes obsolete.

If your working on an apartment in an occupied block of flats, are you going to shut the entire building down purely to work on that one flat? I’ve been in this situation and even after knocking on each apartment to ask if shutting down the power is ok, there is still atleast 1 or 2 that you can’t get into. I always use fully insulated tools and would use temporary insulation but I can honestly say I have never found the need to wear fire proof clothing and use arc shields when working in a domestic or commercial environment.
No, but I woukd arrange to isolate the feed to that particular flat if necessary. There will be a means of isolation for the supply to each flat. If work is required to the live side of that means of isolation then you have to contact the BNO to arrange the necessary permissions etc.
 

davesparks

-
Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
I always use fully insulated tools and would use temporary insulation but I can honestly say I have never found the need to wear fire proof clothing and use arc shields when working in a domestic or commercial environment.
Do you not find that it gets expensive using fully insulated tools all of the time, they must get damaged pretty easily in everyday use? We're not talking about your usual 1000V VDE tools which still have a lot of exposed metal but actual fully insulates/all plastic construction.

You aren't risk assessing the job very well if you haven't found the need for arc protection when working live, you don't exactly get a second chance once you've written off your eyes!
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #46
No, but I woukd arrange to isolate the feed to that particular flat if necessary. There will be a means of isolation for the supply to each flat. If work is required to the live side of that means of isolation then you have to contact the BNO to arrange the necessary permissions etc.
I was talking about the sub main feeding all the said apartments. On paper it’s fine stating exactly how things should be done but in reality it doesn’t always work that way. Sometimes the job has to be done and it can’t always be done 100% to the book. I think anyone who says they’ve always 100% done things to the book is a liar, in my opinion.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #47
As for dealing with the dno. This is absolutely fine if you have an unlimited budget and 6 months to complete every job.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #48
I understand your point of view and I totally agree things should ALWAYS be done as safely as possible. All I’m saying is sometimes they cannot always be done 100% to the book and from what I’ve heard even the niceic understand this as fact.
 

Midwest

-
Arms
Esteemed
I was talking about the sub main feeding all the said apartments. On paper it’s fine stating exactly how things should be done but in reality it doesn’t always work that way. Sometimes the job has to be done and it can’t always be done 100% to the book. I think anyone who says they’ve always 100% done things to the book is a liar, in my opinion.
They turned off the power to my local neighbourhood recently, to do some supply work. Sent round a nice little letter a few weeks before. Can't see its a problem. As davesparks said, you should have very good reasons to work live, otherwise you's be in trouble with HSE, should it all go wrong & you survive.

I've had my hands inside a live DB to do some very minor stuff before now, but no one would come to my aid (not literary) if it went wrong.
 

Midwest

-
Arms
Esteemed
I would give it a second check with an alternative test instrument. Even if it’s a volt pen.
I wouldn't rely on one of those, with my health on the line. The only way to know that something is 'off', is when it was 'on' and then you've just turned it 'off'. :)
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #51
They turned off the power to my local neighbourhood recently, to do some supply work. Sent round a nice little letter a few weeks before. Can't see its a problem. As davesparks said, you should have very good reasons to work live, otherwise you's be in trouble with HSE, should it all go wrong & you survive.

I've had my hands inside a live DB to do some very minor stuff before now, but no one would come to my aid (not literary) if it went wrong.
This is all I’m saying. You’ve had your hands inside a live dB board so therefore you cannot say you’ve always followed the book 100%. The times I have worked live have only been what I would consider minor also and have in my opinion been necessary.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #52
I wouldn't rely on one of those, with my health on the line. The only way to know that something is 'off', is when it was 'on' and then you've just turned it 'off'. :)
I would only rely on these as a secondary or even third option. Just to check that my primary testing equiptment was correct. It’s purely a back up option in the case stated by someone previously
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #55
As someone said previously we are electricians. Our job involves working with something that can kill you at anytime. If working with that risk factor does not appeal then maybe the electrical industry is not for you. Of course we try to minimise that risk factor to the absolute smallest quantity but there is virtually always a potential risk present.
 

Lucien Nunes

-
Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
I don't get this stuff about not trusting a proving unit. If your favourite AVI says the proving unit is live and the supply is dead, and another instrument agrees that the proving unit is live and the supply is dead, then there is a vanishingly small chance that the supply is live. With cross checking both live and dead, each instrument validates the others. If you don't have the proving unit and simply rely on the AVI and MFT agreeing that the supply is dead, the probability that it is live is still pretty small but you have no frame of reference for that.

I have blown instruments up, including my trusty Fluke DMM that stopped measuring things after getting a momentary whiff of 50kV. It looked fine but just displayed zeroes all the time. Had I relied on it I would have been stuffed.
 
T

The Ghost

I think one technique is very helpful in this kind of situation. So cover your eyes with wet toilet tissue sit on the loo put your head between your legs and kiss your sweet ass goodbye...oh hang on that's if the atom bomb is going to drop sorry, as you were.
 

Gavin John Hyde

-
Arms
Esteemed
You can use your own premises as on eof the sample jobs.
If it is a domestic installer registration then one domestic job is required.
If it is an approved contractor registration then it needs to be 3 sample jobs demonstrating the full spectrum of work you carry out, not just domestic work.
I was encouraged to go down the AC route with NICEIC and was told by the assessor if the focus is on domestic in your business, then you can show just domestic jobs. As always I gather that Certsure can be flexible when a cheque is involved.
 

Gavin John Hyde

-
Arms
Esteemed
Are the nic going to want to see an approved voltage tester and proving unit? Or can I get away with using my fluke t5-1000 and proving it on a known source when doing safe isolation, which I’m assuming you’ll have to show?
Get a proving unit and voltage tester, plenty of good offers out there at the moment.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #60
Get a proving unit and voltage tester, plenty of good offers out there at the moment.
Does my fluke t5-1000 count as a voltage indicator? I’m aware it indicates when there is a voltage present but it’s not dedicated to just this function. My megger multimeter can also indicate when a voltage is present but i know that niceic don’t recognise this as a reliable source for whatever reason
 

DPG

-
Arms
Esteemed
Patron
Get an approved voltage tester and proving unit. Why would you not bearing in mind the small cost?
 

ruston

-
Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
Does my fluke t5-1000 count as a voltage indicator? I’m aware it indicates when there is a voltage present but it’s not dedicated to just this function. My megger multimeter can also indicate when a voltage is present but i know that niceic don’t recognise this as a reliable source for whatever reason
Have a look at this mate , it was part of the old 2391 exam too.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #63
Have a look at this mate , it was part of the old 2391 exam too.
Thanks. I’ll get myself a new voltage detector and proving unit then. What with all the new 18th edition books I’ve bought, the 18th edition course I’ve booked and the niceic subscription and initial assessment costs, this is proving to be a rather costly experience. I hope it’s worth it
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #64
Has anyone got any recommendations on a decent yet not too expensive proving unit and voltage indicator?
 

ruston

-
Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
Thanks. I’ll get myself a new voltage detector and proving unit then. What with all the new 18th edition books I’ve bought, the 18th edition course I’ve booked and the niceic subscription and initial assessment costs, this is proving to be a rather costly experience. I hope it’s worth it
Money spent on safety equipment is never wasted. It could save your or someone's life.
I have the Megger voltage tester in your link . It is a very useful tester. It has phase rotation and correct polarity amongst other features too.
 

DPG

-
Arms
Esteemed
Patron
Consider Kewtech if you want a lower budget but still reasonable item.
 

Taylortwocities

-
Arms
Esteemed
Are the nic going to want to see an approved voltage tester and proving unit? Or can I get away with using my fluke t5-1000 and proving it on a known source when doing safe isolation, which I’m assuming you’ll have to show?
He’ll be looking for a GS38 compliant voltage tester. You can get GS38 probes for the fluke. TS38.
Sold by RS, and others.
 
Last edited:

davesparks

-
Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
I would only rely on these as a secondary or even third option. Just to check that my primary testing equiptment was correct. It’s purely a back up option in the case stated by someone previously
A device used to check that your primary testing equipment is correct should be something more reliable than the primary testing equipment, not something less reliable.
 

davesparks

-
Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
Does my fluke t5-1000 count as a voltage indicator? I’m aware it indicates when there is a voltage present but it’s not dedicated to just this function. My megger multimeter can also indicate when a voltage is present but i know that niceic don’t recognise this as a reliable source for whatever reason
It's not what the niceic recognises that matters, the equipment you use needs to comply with gs38 for the purpose of safe isolation.

Don't forget you'll also need a means of locking off suitable to the type of equipment you work on.
 

Midwest

-
Arms
Esteemed
Has anyone got any recommendations on a decent yet not too expensive proving unit and voltage indicator?
Make sure the one you do purchase, is manufacturered to withstand rough service. I bought one of those dilog voltage tester (& proving unit :) ). It lasted a year, before the lead popped out of the main housing.

Bought a Fluke one, its nice & rebust. Still got the dilog proving unit mind.
 
Wetroom Store - Network Wetroom Suppliers
This official sponsor may provide discounts for members

Reply to Tips for my first niceic inspection in the Certification NICEIC, NAPIT, Stroma, BECSA Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Top Bottom