What electrical work can a non qualified person be asked to do in a school?

[caretakerswife]

My husband is a caretaker at a primary school.

He does all jobs they ask him to do (sometimes without the training he is supposed to have first as for instance, he argued the gutter needed unblocking and walking up a ladder is common sense) as he likes to please. They have recently asked him to look at and replace some lights and he came back saying how messed up the wiring was. I was a bit shocked as when he described the job to me I thought he was just going to be replacing the bulbs not actually replacing the whole light fittings. Is he legally allowed to do electrical work for the school (just a school, no dwellings attached) and should they even be asking him as he has zero qualifications or training for electrical work, he is just working on the same knowledge of electrics the average person has.

 

[davesparks]

He should be skilled and competent to do the task, and should have enough knowledge to do the job safely as well as enough knowledge to know what is beyond his limits.

One key question I would ask is whether he has an approved voltage indicator, proving unit and a lock-off kit and fully understands the safe isolation procedure, why it is done the way it is, and the consequences of getting it wrong?

 

[telectrix]

he should not be asked to undertake works that he is not qualified to do. e.g. changing light bulbs is OK, but anything above that requires electrical knowledge and experience. hoe would the school end up after a fire or injury was caused by your husband making a mistake, let alone the comeback on him. he needs to put his foot down and refuse to do works that he is not qualified to do. all welll and good he trying to help the school, but at the end of the day, would they ask him to fit a gas boiler??? he's not gas safe, so he can't. same with electrics. if he's not comfortable with it or qualified, then he should refuse.

 

[caretakerswife]

That's how I feel but he's of the mindset that he has common sense and can do it. I got cross and told him no he shouldn't but can someone point me to any legislation I can show him (he would listen to that even if he wouldn't listen to me) and/or show the headteacher to stop them asking again.

 

[davesparks]

That's how I feel but he's of the mindset that he has common sense and can do it. I got cross and told him no he shouldn't but can someone point me to any legislation I can show him (he would listen to that even if he wouldn't listen to me) and/or show the headteacher to stop them asking again.

The electricity at work regulations 1989 is the relevant law.
The memorandum of guidance on tbe electricity at work regulations is a free download from the HSE's website

 

[Pete999]

My husband is a caretaker at a primary school.

He does all jobs they ask him to do (sometimes without the training he is supposed to have first as for instance, he argued the gutter needed unblocking and walking up a ladder is common sense) as he likes to please. They have recently asked him to look at and replace some lights and he came back saying how messed up the wiring was. I was a bit shocked as when he described the job to me I thought he was just going to be replacing the bulbs not actually replacing the whole light fittings. Is he legally allowed to do electrical work for the school (just a school, no dwellings attached) and should they even be asking him as he has zero qualifications or training for electrical work, he is just working on the same knowledge of electrics the average person has.

I don't know the rules regarding Schools, and the work your Husband has been asked to carry out. but as a minimum in my opinion as a former Electrical Safety officer, he shouldn't be asked to go near anything that is a danger to him, without the required training, if, as you seem to be so worried that you have come to this forum seeking advice. my advice would be to contact the IET or HSE and ask them, I used to run courses for office staff, " understanding the dangers of electricity" but that was an in house course arranged by me for the outfit I worked for the IET should be able to point you in the right direction for training requirements. I will add that I am not a qualified trainer, but have in the electrical industry since I left School in 1961, yes I'm that old. Without being disrespectful to your Husband, how can an untrained person formulate an opinion on something he is not trained for. Sounds like the School board of governors are looking for cheap labour and a scapegoat for any untoward electrical accident, I think there would be some soul searching, and sweaty armpits from the Governors, should there be an accident and they were called to task by the HSE, it's not a pleasant experience I can tell you. sorry rant over.

 

[electric al]

He shouldn't be putting new light fittings up without some understanding of switching arrangements and lighting circuitry . It sounds to me as though your husband is eager to please his employer but if anything goes awry theres every chance that he will be hung out to dry . They could deny asking him fit new lights or say that they understood from him that he was qualified to do so . He should refuse to carry out electrical works for his own sake

 

[caretakerswife]

He would have no issue changing a light at home and he knows enough to be able to do that and therefore he thinks it's the same. When I first queried this his response was 'I'm not stupid, I know how to be safe' and I'll never win that argument with him, legislation or not I would, however, be able to go at this from the point of view of the safety of others, particularly the children, so is there a piece of legislation anywhere that would require electrical work such as changing lights in a school/office must be done by someone qualified?
[automerge]1579024273[/automerge]

Sounds like the School board of governors are looking for cheap labour

That's exactly it. Schools are so short of money these days, particularly small village primary schools.....I was so cross when I heard what he had done. I have told him he must insist the work he has done be checked by a proper electrician and I intend to make sure he gets that done. I just want to have something to show him to stop him doing anything else there, simple work or not.

 

[Robson689]

The school is a workplace so shouldn't be compared to DIY work at home. The Electricity at Work Regulations apply so he cannot do the work.

Regulation 16
No person shall be engaged in any work activity where technical knowledge or
experience is necessary to prevent danger or, where appropriate, injury, unless he
possesses such knowledge or experience, or is under such degree of supervision
as may be appropriate having regard to the nature of the work.

 

[electric al]

The legal requirements state that electrical work has to be carried out by a competent person .
Without any electrical training and or ability to carry out essential testing and an understanding of testing results or proper testing (calibrated) equipment it would be very difficult to prove competence.

 

[David Prosser]

The school is a workplace so shouldn't be compared to DIY work at home. The Electricity at Work Regulations apply so he cannot do the work.

Regulation 16
No person shall be engaged in any work activity where technical knowledge or
experience is necessary to prevent danger or, where appropriate, injury, unless he
possesses such knowledge or experience, or is under such degree of supervision
as may be appropriate having regard to the nature of the work.

Just beet me to it. Couldn't be clearer !!!!!

 

[Pete999]

He would have no issue changing a light at home and he knows enough to be able to do that and therefore he thinks it's the same. When I first queried this his response was 'I'm not stupid, I know how to be safe' and I'll never win that argument with him, legislation or not I would, however, be able to go at this from the point of view of the safety of others, particularly the children, so is there a piece of legislation anywhere that would require electrical work such as changing lights in a school/office must be done by someone qualified?
[automerge]1579024273[/automerge]

That's exactly it. Schools are so short of money these days, particularly small village primary schools.....I was so cross when I heard what he had done. I have told him he must insist the work he has done be checked by a proper electrician and I intend to make sure he gets that done. I just want to have something to show him to stop him doing anything else there, simple work or not.

The Memorandum to the Electricity at work act would be a good start, the problem as I see it, is if you other half question this he may be fired for causing trouble, I know how these so and sos work, would be interesting to be at the employment tribunal, but that;s not what you want to hear, get him to insist on a meeting with the Governors to discuss, is he a Trade Union Member?
[automerge]1579025235[/automerge]

Just beet me to it. Couldn't be clearer !!!!!

He isn't being asked to do any work. just comment on the wiring, there is a difference, he is being put in an impossible situation, if he isn't a TU member don't complain until he has been a member for three months, then watch the backsides go threepence, sixpence, half a crown when the TU safety Officer is called in to read the riot act, I was a TU rep for 5 years so I do have experience, of watching Management squirm trying to justify themselves, just get him to join and hang in there for three months, the TU won't act retrospectively, hence the three month wait.

 

[caretakerswife]

Losing the job is no issue, it's not his main job and he doesn't really want it, he's just doing it because the school was without a caretaker and there was no one else to do it.

 

[radiohead]

Your husband is not alone, one large secondary school I have worked at for over 30 years now uses the caretaker to carry out a great deal of electrical work. I have seen some of it, singles thrown across suspended ceilings, plastic conduit extended from steel to lights without any cpc…..I could go on. Make no mistake if something dangerous happens as a result of your husbands work..(not saying it will)...the school will not support him, he will be shafted and hung out to dry.

 

[Pete999]

Losing the job is no issue, it's not his main job and he doesn't really want it, he's just doing it because the school was without a caretaker and there was no one else to do it.

Well then, go for it, call their bluff see where it leads. unfair dismissal can be lucrative if you're prepared to stay the distance.
[automerge]1579026046[/automerge]

Your husband is not alone, one large secondary school I have worked at for over 30 years now uses the caretaker to carry out a great deal of electrical work. I have seen some of it, singles thrown across suspended ceilings, plastic conduit extended from steel to lights without any cpc…..I could go on. Make no mistake if something dangerous happens as a result of your husbands work..(not saying it will)...the school will not support him, he will be shafted and hung out to dry.

Agree but think of the B-m squeaks and eventual pay out for unfair dismissal, seen it happen a few times, love it watching Management eat humble pie, and backing down, a wonderful thing especially for those that think they are above the law, and earning more than I used to.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

I think the point here is that he considers himself competent, therefore expects to be able to replace the lights in a satisfactory manner. He might indeed have the skills to do this and therefore comply with the EAW up to that point, if he is familiar with safe isolation procedure and has a suitable approved voltage indicator. The problem then comes with the testing and certifying. If he is not equipped with the appropriate calibrated electrical testgear and the knowledge to use it and interpret the results, then he would not be considered competent to complete the testing required prior to recommissioning the circuit.

His getout is that the school have not provided suitable resources (AVI, lockout kit, testgear etc) therefore no matter what his skill level, he cannot undertake repairs to the electrical installation.

 

[littlespark]

You could also argue, that in the eyes of H&S , has he been trained on the proper use of stepladders to change a lightbulb, never mind the whole fitting?
Changing a plug could be questionable too, if he’s ever been asked to.
im sure he has, and it is all common sense, but his place of work needs to prove that he was trained in the event if he falls off.
Risk assessments need to be in place also.

we’re not in any way criticising his want to help out. Good on him
But as professionals we see the legalities and insurance problems that can arise.

 

[Midwest]

@caretakerswife I’ve read your posts with some personal interest.

I‘ll share some experiences.

I’m a qualified electrician, and have been working as maintenance assistant for a year or so now, in a large group of premises. It’s owned and run by a large national company.

I have a friend, who is a qualified plumber, who has been working as a maintenance manager for another large company, in the hospitality sector.

We have both been doing jobs, at these places, not just in our own trades, but other areas.

Just before Xmas, my manger was called to a maintenance HQ meeting along with the different contractors we use. The crux of the meeting, was to inform managers, that staff were not to carry out works that should be carried out by contractors, who have the necessary mission statements, risk assessments etc. Indeed any staff who carried out such works, are not insured to do so, and if they ignored instruction, they would take on the risk.

So now, I no longer replace damaged light fittings, or sockets or switches, just gather enough information to pass onto the contractor.

My friend however, has left his employer, as they have the opposite stance, and were expecting him to do work of which he has no knowledge.

A colleague of mine, who has spent his life in maintenance, can’t grasp the new regime. He enjoys helping people, but can’t help himself and still thinks he should be doing changing taps etc. Perhaps he’s a bit like your husband.

Your husband should establish exactly what his job specification is, and what he is insured to do, by his employer.

 

[StephenRowley]

In addition to the electricity at work act, the H&S at work act applies. He should have a written risk assessment and method statement for any more he's carrying.

Also using a ladder he should have proper training for.

The school will be struggling for money if/when he has accident and he sues, the hse fines them and they've got to pay sick pay to a staff member.

 

[lozarus]

I am a Site Manager in an educational establishment. So that's heading up maintenance, risk assesments, compliance and H&S (including Fire, Water & Asbestos)

I can't speak for others, and all institutions will give you a different answer - but personally it's generally a no from me.

I happen to have a number of formal electrical qualifications from my previous career, and one of my team was previously a practicing commercial electrician. All of our qualifications are filed in staff records. I allow him and myself only to undertake "direct replacement" works - IE changing light fittings, sockets, plugs etc. I also insist on at least a Zs being recorded before and after works. I record this and the activity as a whole is risk assessed.

I consider it important to have someone suitably qualified on site, as a damaged socket outlet could pose an immediate danger and I appreciate having someone appropriate to remedy immediately due to the prevalence of "prying fingers" in schools. If I didn't have someone qualified, I would be pushing my management to recruit or pay for training.

Furthermore, I am updating my qualifications with support of my employer. This allows them to evidence that I am "competent" to undertake said works and allows me to sleep easy that this is in place and my works are above board.

Anything further I contract out and expect formal MWC or EIC as appropriate.

My other team members wouldn't consider undertaking electrical works by default. I run my department quite openly. I expect my team to tell me of any works they aren't comfortable doing - be it using power tools, building things from wood, etc. This allows me to work out what jobs they excel at and are comfortable to do which I can avoid contracting out. The money I save from doing this can be used to fund work such as electrical, externally.