What percentage of Sparks voted Brexit?

[markythesparky]

By the way, there are members saying that we should have been given that facts before we voted.

THERE ARE NO FACTS! THERE ARE NO MORE FACTS NOW THAT THERE WERE BEFORE! THERE ARE NO MORE FACTS ABOUT LEAVE THAN THERE ARE ABOUT REMAIN.

In voting out, we are voting in to an educated unknown. But equally, if we had voted remain, (which we didn’t) we would have voted for Just as much of an unknown. We certainly would not have voted for the status quo as the EU is a ‘shifting sands’ bureaucracy.

The very reason Cameron was
forced into the referendum was because the UK people, as a whole, were fed up with the ever changing EU push toward more integration, more EU!

Discuss.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Whilst there are no more facts now than there were at the time of the vote, some facts have now come to light which were not really made public at the time of the vote.
For instance the Good Friday agreement not to have a border between North and Southern Ireland.
The way it’s shaping up, there’ll be a referendum soon in NI to decide if they want to remain part of the UK or join Southern Ireland.

 

[MDJ]

One thing about Brexit which no one can argue is the fact it has heavily divided the country, one of the worse things to happen to this country, IMO it is just a matter of time before the union breaks up over it, we are all at each others throats on here, it is the single most important thing to happen to the UK since the revolution IMO, it will change us forever regardless of how we all voted.

 

[Darkwood]

What brexit has done is give us a taste of living in the USA, politics is a family ritual over there and divides families, splits communities and causes lots of secondary issues, it has been happening for decades, here in the UK it has taken a referendum to achieve anything like we see in the US but I believe once we are out, the dust has settled and politics returns back to normal then we will all settle back to ignoring the politics of a person and treating them as equals regardless.
The speed at which this occurs will all be based on how we fair post Brexit, there is going to be a mad rush of media trying to show every job lost and every tiny negative effect out there to maintain their position because they have spent the last few yrs playing fearmongering, it will be very interesting when the UK (as I suspect) makes a success of not been tied to the EU under the rule of Brussels to how all these defiant remainer media, and organisations react when most of the scare stories they have been playing the population with do not come to fruition... like 90% of them haven't yet when claimed the vote alone would cause this and that.

 

[Adam W]

I'll give you a fact, not my opinion.
Things would of stayed as they were.
There you go.

Now can you give me any facts as to how we will be better off when we leave please?

Oh and by the way, I found your cartoon quite offensive.

That is opinion though - the fact is that the EU has changed, from a trade bloc to a meddling unelected federal body which has changed the face of Britain - the EU has brought about a situation where you mainly hear foreign voices in the street, where employers say they can no longer run their businesses without migrant workers, competition for property has pushed prices up beyond the means of many people who were born here, meaning people are faced with the prospect of living in digs for the rest of their lives if they haven't spent their working life saving up for their house back home.

Nobody knows for certain if we'll be better off when we leave, but the general consensus is that things can't keep going the way they are.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

That is opinion though - the fact is that the EU has changed, from a trade bloc to a meddling unelected federal body which has changed the face of Britain - the EU has brought about a situation where you mainly hear foreign voices in the street, where employers say they can no longer run their businesses without migrant workers, competition for property has pushed prices up beyond the means of many people who were born here, meaning people are faced with the prospect of living in digs for the rest of their lives if they haven't spent their working life saving up for their house back home.

Nobody knows for certain if we'll be better off when we leave, but the general consensus is that things can't keep going the way they are.

Most of that has sod all to do with the EU.

 

[Adam W]

Most of that has sod all to do with the EU.

Would you care to expand on that?

 

[telectrix]

Most of that has sod all to do with the EU.

why not.even non-eU migrants come here through europe, let'em in then move them on and dump them in UK has been EU policy for years.

 

[plugsandsparks]

Spoke to a client today who runs a business in UK, he cannot wait to leave, he has seen for his own eyes how EU multinationals have lobbied EU, skewed the market place and hurt many businesses in the process. We need a total clean break so our businesses can get on with global business on a level playing field. BTW he laughed at all the fuss about borders and customs, he imports from all over the world and states that the EU is actually more frustrating to deal with than US, china and asia, it isn't anything like what is being portrayed in the media. Over the cliff we go..... lol

 

[Nigel]

The EU's master plan is to have each Member State so reliant in it that they could never leave.

Portugal is a good example. One if the first things the EU done when Portugal joined was to give their farmers and manufacturing EU grants to close down. Portugal is now almost completely reliant on imports from............. yes, Germany.

We have to a certain extent almost fallen down the same hole. However we may just get out in time. The fact that we are talking about imploding as a direct result of leaving the EU scares me more than anything. The moment a country cannot survive without the input of foreign states then that country fails to be.

We will leave the EU as it is now impossible to be stopped. Anyone saying anything different does not understand how Parliament works.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Would you care to expand on that?

In the 80s Maggie Thatcher and the Tories gave Council Tenants the right to buy, whilst preventing Councils from using the proceeds from the sales to build more properties.
The resulting housing shortage and increased demand for housing has led to the escalation in house prices.

Maggie Thatcher and the Tories also decided to sell off all our nationalised industries for a fraction of their worth, resulting in our losing the millions of pounds of profit from those industries, the foreign ownership of those industries, a higher burden on our taxes and a reduction in public services.

Maggie Thatcher and the Tories also introduced competitive tendering, which resulted in an increase in foreign ownership, a decrease in wages, a decrease in the quality of work, an increase in costs, a higher burden on our taxes and a further reduction in public services.

Maggie Thatcher personally signed the freedom of movement agreement, which resulted in an increase in migrant workers from the EU, a further lowering of wages, an increase in the demand for housing and an increase on the demand for public services.

All this happened in the 80s, when the EU was still the EEC, just a trade block.

 

[Adam W]

In the 80s Maggie Thatcher and the Tories gave Council Tenants the right to buy, whilst preventing Councils from using the proceeds from the sales to build more properties.
The resulting housing shortage and increased demand for housing has led to the escalation in house prices.

Maggie Thatcher and the Tories also decided to sell off all our nationalised industries for a fraction of their worth, resulting in our losing the millions of pounds of profit from those industries, the foreign ownership of those industries, a higher burden on our taxes and a reduction in public services.

Maggie Thatcher and the Tories also introduced competitive tendering, which resulted in an increase in foreign ownership, a decrease in wages, a decrease in the quality of work, an increase in costs, a higher burden on our taxes and a further reduction in public services.

Maggie Thatcher personally signed the freedom of movement agreement, which resulted in an increase in migrant workers from the EU, a further lowering of wages, an increase in the demand for housing and an increase on the demand for public services.

All this happened in the 80s, when the EU was still the EEC, just a trade block.

Most of that has sod all to do with anything - that was 30 years ago and Maggie Thatcher died 5 years ago; you can't keep blaming her for everything.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Most of that has sod all to do with anything - that was 30 years ago and Maggie Thatcher died 5 years ago; you can't keep blaming her for everything.

That was just the start.
Both the Tories and the War criminal have continued the destruction.

 

[Adam W]

That was just the start.
Both the Tories and the War criminal have continued the destruction.

 

[telectrix]

In the 80s Maggie Thatcher and the Tories gave Council Tenants the right to buy, whilst preventing Councils from using the proceeds from the sales to build more properties.
The resulting housing shortage and increased demand for housing has led to the escalation in house prices.
i have to disagree with that. once tenants had purchased their council houses, they were no longer prospective tenants, sohow could that lead to a housing shortage? 1 less councilhouse available, but 1 less family wanting council rented accomodation.

Maggie Thatcher and the Tories also decided to sell off all our nationalised industries for a fraction of their worth, resulting in our losing the millions of pounds of profit from those industries, the foreign ownership of those industries, a higher burden on our taxes and a reduction in public services.
you mean the huge losses incurred by these overstaffed inefficient industries

Maggie Thatcher and the Tories also introduced competitive tendering, which resulted in an increase in foreign ownership, a decrease in wages, a decrease in the quality of work, an increase in costs, a higher burden on our taxes and a further reduction in public services.
i can agree partially with this statement.
Maggie Thatcher personally signed the freedom of movement agreement, which resulted in an increase in migrant workers from the EU, a further lowering of wages, an increase in the demand for housing and an increase on the demand for public services.

All this happened in the 80s, when the EU was still the EEC, just a trade block.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Those houses the Tennants purchased were no longer available for letting.
This created a shortage in public housing.
Prospective tennants then turned to the private sector.
This increased the demand on private housing.
As ther demand for private rented accommodation increased, landlords and prospective landlords purchased more property.
This further increased the demand on private housing.

Surprisingly only 20% of MPs are landlords.
Not surprisingly 70% of those are Tory.

 

[plugsandsparks]

I thought demand for housing was caused by many more single parent families and more people on the island wanting a house, whether the state or private builds them is neither here nor there.
Anyway, i think you will find that the free movement problem started when more countries were added to the EU during 2003 onwards. The actual agreements to add these countries and of course the impact of their movement was signed by TB, i remember the debates at the time and the government grossly (and negligently) under-estimated the number that would migrate (by millions) and hence we have a housing crisis. Maggie will be turning in her grave at the thoughts of what TB got up to opening up the UK to all and sundry, OH and conveniently forgetting to bolster up all our public services to cope.
What a muppet

 

[Deleted member 26818]

In 1965, my mum purchased a new build 2 bedroom flat for £3,000. She obtained a fixed rate mortgage from the newly formed GLC.
In 1969, my parents sold the flat for £5,000 and purchased a 3/4 bedroom house for £9,000. The two rear bedrooms had been converted into a kitchenette and bed sitting room.
My Paternal grandparents at the time were living in a Council 3 bed maisonette.
Following the death of my grandmother and the emigration to Canada of my Grandfather in 1975/6, the Council wrote to my Father and offered him the tenancy of my grandparents’ maisonette.
Although when my Grandparents first took up residency of the Maisonette, they had my Aunt living with them, for the majority of their tenancy they did not require 3 or even 2 bedrooms.
Today the Council would move them out to a 1 bed property in no time at all.

Surviving children of deceased tennants have always been able to inherit tenancies.
However, I have never heard of an instance where a tenancy was offered to someone living somewhere other than at the address of the tenancy.
Today even someone living at the address would have to fight to inherit the tenancy.

I can only assume, that at that time, during the 60s and 70s, there was no housing shortage in the area.

I personally know that housing policy in the area has changed since the beginning of the 80s.
Prospective tenants were allowed to refuse as many offers of tenancy as they wanted and still maintain their place on the waiting list. Over time this has been reduced to two offers, to one offer to now, no right of refusal.
In fact local Councils are now offering prospective tenants tenancies in other cities with no right of refusal.
Someone who has lived in Leyton all their lives and now needs Council accommodation, will not be offered somewhere local, perhaps in a neighbouring area, such as Leytonstone, Walthamstow, etc. instead they will be offered somewhere in Oldham or Manchester, even Barrow in Furness.

Some people will say, we have had an increase in our population.
In actual fact, the indigenous population is decreasing.
The population of the UK decreased from the 60s to the mid 70s, when it started to slightly increase again.
From 1985 (just after Thatcher signed the freedom of movement agreement) the population has been steadily increasing, mainly due to immigration.

To cap it all, Thatcher introduced a policy which reduced public housing, at the same time signed an agreement which increased immigration and over 70% of MPs that are landlords are Tory.
We no longer have a housing shortage, it’s now a housing crisis.

 

[Adam W]

In 1965, my mum purchased a new build 2 bedroom flat for £3,000. She obtained a fixed rate mortgage from the newly formed GLC.
In 1969, my parents sold the flat for £5,000 and purchased a 3/4 bedroom house for £9,000. The two rear bedrooms had been converted into a kitchenette and bed sitting room.
My Paternal grandparents at the time were living in a Council 3 bed maisonette.
Following the death of my grandmother and the emigration to Canada of my Grandfather in 1975/6, the Council wrote to my Father and offered him the tenancy of my grandparents’ maisonette.
Although when my Grandparents first took up residency of the Maisonette, they had my Aunt living with them, for the majority of their tenancy they did not require 3 or even 2 bedrooms.
Today the Council would move them out to a 1 bed property in no time at all.

Surviving children of deceased tennants have always been able to inherit tenancies.
However, I have never heard of an instance where a tenancy was offered to someone living somewhere other than at the address of the tenancy.
Today even someone living at the address would have to fight to inherit the tenancy.

I can only assume, that at that time, during the 60s and 70s, there was no housing shortage in the area.

I personally know that housing policy in the area has changed since the beginning of the 80s.
Prospective tenants were allowed to refuse as many offers of tenancy as they wanted and still maintain their place on the waiting list. Over time this has been reduced to two offers, to one offer to now, no right of refusal.
In fact local Councils are now offering prospective tenants tenancies in other cities with no right of refusal.
Someone who has lived in Leyton all their lives and now needs Council accommodation, will not be offered somewhere local, perhaps in a neighbouring area, such as Leytonstone, Walthamstow, etc. instead they will be offered somewhere in Oldham or Manchester, even Barrow in Furness.

Some people will say, we have had an increase in our population.
In actual fact, the indigenous population is decreasing.
The population of the UK decreased from the 60s to the mid 70s, when it started to slightly increase again.
From 1985 (just after Thatcher signed the freedom of movement agreement) the population has been steadily increasing, mainly due to immigration.

To cap it all, Thatcher introduced a policy which reduced public housing, at the same time signed an agreement which increased immigration and over 70% of MPs that are landlords are Tory.
We no longer have a housing shortage, it’s now a housing crisis.

So what do you think should be done about this crisis of yours?
Have a pop at the Tories? Dance on Margaret Thatcher's grave? Build more council estates in London?

Back on topic, could it help if fewer people from all over the world came to live in London thinking the streets are paved with gold? In other words an end to the free movement of people.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

So what do you think should be done about this crisis of yours?
Have a pop at the Tories? Dance on Margaret Thatcher's grave? Build more council estates in London?

Back on topic, could it help if fewer people from all over the world came to live in London thinking the streets are paved with gold? In other words an end to the free movement of people.

Since the Brexit vote, immigration has declined.
However immigration will not cease when we leave the EU.
Even now they are negotiating to allow freedom of movement to remain after we leave.
What needs to be done, is to stop the selling off of Council and Housing Association properties, and to start building more.

 

[Nigel]

Since the Brexit vote, immigration has declined.
However immigration will not cease when we leave the EU.
Even now they are negotiating to allow freedom of movement to remain after we leave.
What needs to be done, is to stop the selling off of Council and Housing Association properties, and to start building more.

Nobody wants to end immigration. It is a ludacris concept. What people want isnthe ability to chose who comes.

 

[Darkwood]

We are in a capitalist market with socialistic traits in areas, the immigration issue was designed, banks make massive profits on house price rises, they lose major capital if they drop, this is why no subsequent government has ever addressed the problem, the original crash was direct result of this falling in on itself in the US which we were all invested in, the banks run the country not the politicians, they dance to the tune of what the banking system expects, we don't see that side of it, we see all the convenient misdirection like London knife crime and did Boris step over the mark.
With Brexit happening this has cornered the bankers and the message they send filters down through all the big corporates to vocalise a anti Brexit stance, even the governments pushed against a brexit as they do understand from where there bread is buttered ... some may consider this as very imaginative but the financial crash happened as a result of this very model, the next big financial disruption to the world will be the Euro as it is been artificially propped up even though it has technically failed, all the EU members that are having massive financial issues have had their economies supplemented by buy up of bonds making it seem that the EU economy has faired better recently than the UK but this is also an illusion, the tap is been turned off to these economies as the money isn't there anymore... it is the beginning of the end of the Euro and has been strategically delayed for over a decade, leading economists all agree the bubble will burst on the euro but no one can pin a date on it.

It will effect the world similar to the recent crash but less so for those outside the block and not having to pay for the cleanup, Yes this may be classed as scaremongering but it has historical backing to shore it up as to what happens with corrupt systems playing a world market, Trump's input to level the trade playing field on tariffs has already started the roller coaster, the EU reacted by making Trump to be the bad one yet it imposed massive tariffs across USA goods that were not balanced with the US tariffs applied, the EU's ring-fenced trade approach made it very one sided to trade outside the EU member states and now we see desperation as the EU get's on board trade partners with all the benefits and none of the obligations IE Canada and Japan... thus claiming to be a group of free trade until you realise both these countries actually trade a tenth of what the UK does, it's all a gimmick to look like they are a trade group of easy no restricted trade yet have maintained and in some cases increased tariffs on members across the world who have substantially bigger deficits with the EU just like ourselves.

Getting out is going to instantly boost our economy and external investment, this has already been shown as 2017 saw record investments into the UK from non EU countries..

 

[ChipFanDave]

Yes this may be classed as scaremongering

A drop in the ocean compared to the daily project fear drivel on the major TV channels.

 

[BruceBanner]

Out, decided a long time before referendum was ever proposed. Had enough of sovereign powers being give to & taken away to & by nameless & faceless bodies with their own agendas to ultimately line their own pockets & power portfolio's. If unhappy soals want another referrendum due to last result, the same rule should be applied to the general election, this lot only got back into power on a hung vote, should have been another vote if the remainders want to play same rules across the boards.

 

[FatAlan]

Too many daily mail readers on here.

Am I reaching the record for ‘dumb’ ratings yet ?

 

[buzzlightyear]

, that what me thinks .

 

[chris gray]

Personally I voted to leave

 

[pirate]

I voted to stay...no, actually, I didn't vote at all as I was out of the country, however I paired with someone I trust implicity, Mrs Pirate, who was voting to leave, and we both didn't vote, thus cancelling out.
She has changed her mind over the last few months. I haven't.
I will not bore you with my reasoning, because every reason to stay has a reason to leave...however I do believe our government have performed appallingly over the exit process, and as more and more people find out exactly how different the exit deal is from what they believed at the time of the vote, the more they are changing track.
It is time for another referendum.
(Currently processing my Spanish residency application)

 

[sparkdog]

Mr Churchill gets my vote!

 

[sparksfly]

I only get updates about Britax (yes Britax) from my Mum, bless her. She has strong opinions about politics (incl. baby car seats!!). Its just a lobbying driven propaganda media storm & it will blow over....then maybe they will talk about some real things happening in life...............I drove over a squirrel the other week. It shot out in front of the car and made a U turn...felt a bump on the rear wheel. I braked but what if I did not brake? I did reverse back just to make sure. I wonder how many nuts it was collecting ?.... most upsetting it was.